Should I do jury service?

[Juryorrun]

I’ve been summoned to do jury service. I have good reasons to be excused from it, and those same reasons would make it a right old ballache to do (caring responsibilities etc). And I would also have an almost 2 hour journey to get there, and the same back each day.

It says 10 days service on the letter, but also says it may go on longer. Is that a standard thing it always says, or is it really likely to be around the 10 day mark? If it’s going to be a lot longer than that it definitely wouldn’t be possible.

BUT…I’ve always wanted to do jury service and I’d actually like to do it. I know it probably won’t be as exciting as I’m expecting it to be, but I think it would be interesting.

So AIBU for not getting out of it when I easily could, and it will be a right PITA logistics wise?

Ironically, that defeats the object. Its supposed to be a jury of your peers, warts and all.

12 men (or women), good and true.

I think I know what you mean, but it wouldn't work would it, I mean it'd be stretching the meaning of jury too far.

I did it years ago - really bad timing as I had just started a new job, was told if I deferred( easier then) they would recall me very quickly anyway, so bit the bullet. . Learnt later that it had been viewed very badly by the senior management and they had nearly failed my probation because of it.

Did a run of small cases including a pickpocket one where the defence barrister was an at that time famous human rights lawyer, always in the media, seemed overkill but it all pays the bills. He behaved as if he was defending a capital crime, his defendant innocent and near to sainthood, went really over the top in his aggressive examining of the victim, a young woman. One of our co jurors said she ‘believed the lad was innocent because the barrister had such nice eyes and he couldn’t possibly lie’ The rest of us were not quite so swayed by twinkle eyes and found him guilty, whereupon his very long list of previous was read out before sentencing.

Another had father and son accused of going equipped for burglary and another conspiracy charge. Their defence was that, yes, they were professional burglars but not on this occasion and this was a set up by the police. The police case was so shoddily put together with so many holes that we agreed it was an affront to their professional criminal pride and found them not guilty.

I think I had a couple of short days but otherwise a full timetable. Fascinating to take part and, though rarely convenient for anyone, it is an important civic duty and stays with you. . My husband has his first stint lined up for next month and has been juggling commitments around in anticipation.

I wasn’t prepared for how upsetting it would be, not just because of the case but because the attitude of some of the fellow jurors.

I've done jury service twice, first time we had a case should have been 3-4 days but took a week and a half, we got dismissed after.
Second time, I wasn't called on the first day, told to stay at home 2nd day, came in 3rd day not picked so sent home, came in on the Friday sent home, came in on the Monday sent home, told to stay at home every day after that. Was pretty boring with so much wasted time! Went in to work the days I was told to not come in/ after being sent home.

It is your duty as a citizen. It isn’t like choosing whether or not to go to the cinema. Do it

Completely disagree. I’m not in UK but we are based on UK system but may have some points of difference, not sure.

Here, there is an option for judge only trials in certain circumstances, think it can only be requested by defence, or put forward by a judge and approved by a panel. If this can be done for certain cases, I don’t see why it can’t be done for all cases. Also, I believe places like Norway have judge only, no jury system and they don’t seem to be disadvantaged as a society because of it.

I have never had to do it due to exempted occupation but given examples I have been exposed to over the decades I don’t believe it’s appropriate to essentially sacrifice people unnecessarily. I know of three normal high functioning people who became mentally ill and unable to work for life after jury duty. Not everyone can cope with long trials based on graphic accounts of kidnapping/rape/torture/murder and/or forensic pictures of crime scenes where kids have been bludgeoned to death etc. These sorts of trials can go on for months. People are eligible for a few sessions with a psychologist if they request but seemingly it’s pretty useless after what they have been subject to.

Then I knew of one murder trial where the defendant was deemed overwhelmingly guilty by all but one juror. However, the verdict must be unanimous and the one juror wouldn’t budge. The judge wouldn’t accept they couldn’t come to a unanimous verdict so sent them to a hotel (couldn’t be excused until they all agreed). So on day 10 all the other jurors folded to the one juror, not because they agreed, but so they could finally go home from being trapped in the hotel (access to room and conference room only - no mobiles etc permitted). Trial was in fourth month at this point. The person I knew was absolutely distraught that an obviously guilty murderer walked free simply due to one idiot.

Then there are things such as complex fraud cases where it’s challenging content for highly educated people without relevant financial/banking/forensic accountancy knowledge, and they put people who can barely count to ten on the jury. An acquaintance said it was hard enough for themselves, let alone the numerous prolonged jury breaks for them all to try and re-explain it all to a few jury members with less than optimal intelligence, and it made the whole thing spin out well over double the time it should have taken.

So, putting all of that together, I really disagree with the ‘civic duty’ line.

I was called last year but I deferred due to my MH it was greatly triggered by a court case were I was the victim and I ended up sectioned after the trial.
My DH got a long one a few years ago it was boring though as it was fraud he said some of the jurors were really racist (it was a Asian defendant )

My only point to question in your message here is that this alleged murderer didn't get off because of one idiot but because of 10 jurors changing their vote just so they could go home, if they'd held out a bit longer the judge would have given further directions (ie accepted a different majority or just dismissed the case.
I get your point in general though, and I experienced it myself

No, nothing as standard. It could be a reason for a juror to be exempt either fully or from a specific case though.

More generally, there is no support during or after the trial for jurors. Or indeed for the court staff, judge, entirely self employed barristers etc. Crime is changing and can be increasingly upsetting and disturbing, so this is a real problem. I found jury service upsetting (but feel it was important and I learned a great deal) and have friends who have needed to have counselling after jury service.

Totally agree! I’ve never thought picking some randoms is the best way to decide if someone is guilty. In fact I think that is terrifying.

2 hours is ridiculous though and I’d refusing just on that basis alone!

I really enjoyed it. I got an interesting but non harrowing case involving cannabis. It was frustrating because the ringleader couldn't be found guilty for the bigger offence because the police had failed to get a key piece of evidence which they could have got a court order to produce but somehow had overlooked it. The whole thing was fascinating. We got a couple of random days off once when we got there and were sent home as no trials needed us and one day when one of the jurors had to go to hospital. We also finished before the full 2 weeks by a day or 2.

They all say 10 days. Often it's less. Rarely it is more. Although I know two people called up for it and one was on a case for a month and my DH was on a fraud case for almost 6 months.

Is it always your county Crown court that you are called to, mine is about 15 miles away but on a bus route so fairly easy to get to on public transport. I don't think I could manage to easily get to another court though unless by car which you don't get refunded for.

@namechange301 My only point to question in your message here is that this alleged murderer didn't get off because of one idiot but because of 10 jurors changing their vote just so they could go home, if they'd held out a bit longer the judge would have given further directions (ie accepted a different majority or just dismissed the case

The case had run for months. Then they were in day 10 of being sequestered in a hotel only being allowed to move between their room and a meeting room. How much longer did you want them to hold out for? They had already expressed to the judge several times the situation and they didn’t believe it was solvable irrespective of time. They were on day 10 of essentially being held as hostages. Did you think they should have made it to day 12, day 15, day 30? What would have been your personal limit if you think they were all so unreasonable at this point, several months in from when the case had started and being in the situation they were?

I’d love to do it, would be a pain with my job but I’d definitely do it. Your decision isn’t it whether it’s worth the hassle if you think you can exempt yourself, they will just go to the next person on the list

When I had a home insurance policy from John Lewis it included cover for lost income if you were called for jury service, might be worth checking. It's a bit of a nightmare if you're self employed or on a zero hours contract.

Great citizenship
How would the justice system survive if everyone had the same attitude?
FFS

@Juryorrun completely agree.
I did Jury Service back in 2016 and was appalled by the lack of comprehension and interest from my fellow jurors. Wanted to reach a verdict quickly as it was Friday and they wanted to get home, while someone's life hung in the balance. It made me despair for how many people must be wrongly in jail or out on the streets when they shouldn't be just because of the flawed jury system.

I loved it though I was on trials for half the time only; there were days of sitting around waiting as people tend to change their plea to guilty on the day.
I was let go early on a few of the days and told not to come in for last 2 days. It depends how busy the courts are and ours always had spare jurors.
For longer trials potential jurors were asked if they were available or had any holidays due etc.

@Notacrescentcroissant Great citizenship
How would the justice system survive if everyone had the same attitude? FFS

Just like it survives in other first world countries such as Norway and Germany who are sensible and don’t have jury systems.

I was in a right dither when I got called last April. However it turned out to be different to what I expected. Think about travelling as I don’t think they pay expensive car parking fees just tram, bus or train. Everyone was very friendly and helpful. In the city I live, you were given a phone number to call each night after 6 which read out a series of numbers. If your number wasn’t on the list, you didn’t have to go in. Also you can state that you can’t manage more than 10 days.

i don’t know how they can live with themselves changing their verdict so they could go home and knowing that person is still walking the stress because of them. The one person was within his rights to stick with his verdict, the others changing their verdict is outrageous

@HoppingPavlova I don’t know the Norwegian system but Germany is inquisitorial rather than adversarial, so we would need to change our whole legal system.

I did jury service 14 years ago. I just asked for it to be delayed due to work. Got called up again when I had an EBF 5mo so I didn’t do it. I happily would now.

DH did it, the court was 45 miles away and he had to use public transport because he couldn’t drive at that time for medical reasons. The journey took 2 hours each way. He enjoyed it.
A colleague had to do the same last year and never got picked. She had to travel every day for 4 weeks, said it was incredibly boring and a complete waste of time.

I'd love to do it. I've now been called 4 times - first time I would have been about 38 weeks pregnant, so deferred. Second time I would have been 42 weeks pregnant (so in reality had a 1 week old).
Third time (more recently) I would have been on holiday - so I wrote in and said that I can do any time in the next year except a two week period in October and was put in for those two weeks!

I'm now got a problem with my spine and I really struggle to sit for more than a couple of hours without moving around and stretching.