Do you actually care about the environment?

[HamsterKebab]

I think a lot of people say they care, but do you really? Have you adjusted your life with wildlife or the climate in mind? Or does convenience come first?

Im genuinely interested in how much the general public truly cares about biodiversity loss, climate change, pollution. Does it bother you or do you just think ‘someone else will deal with it’. I’m not judging, I genuinely want to know how people honestly feel rather than what they say out loud.

So you are right that theories emerge and then new techniques and evidence emerges that refute or add to the existing understanding or theory. But this is different. There is an absolute global consensus of scientists (bar a very small number who have vested interests) that climate change is happening faster and more ferociously than ever and that the cause is man made. There is may be 0.0001% doubt. We could cling to that minuscule hope or do something to avoid the worst.

So far the vast majority of climate models have underestimated rather than over estimated the effects. It’s happening quicker and more extremely than was predicted.

Not only that, but you can SEE the effects already. You must have seen the news reports of dreadful floods, heatwaves and fires, exacerbated by climate change? You can’t really doubt the increase in mortality linked to climate. That’s just statistical facts. If you doubt the science you are either massively misinformed, stupid or just want to try and pretend this isn’t happening. But it is.

It has made a difference. I just read that and thought ‘buy nothing new for a year’ sounds like a great challenge and I’m up for it! I’ll probably talk about it with around 40 people as and when I see them. If five of them get inspired they might inspire another 5. And so on. Before you know it your efforts and sharing it on here has saved billions of tonnes of carbon.

Go you!

I agree. I think we would all be happier if we stopped chasing the short term high of buying something and learned to get joy from connections and belonging. I think unfettered capitalism is the root of many of the things that are wrong in our society.

I do care, sort of.

We live rurally so can grow our own food, burn renewable wood instead of coal
in fires, recycle as much as possible, make our own compost and spent £12k putting solar panels on our house.

Ultimately it won’t be enough. Not enough people can do enough, we probably don’t even do enough.

We have two diesel cars, one 11 years old and one 4 years old. We still cook with gas, I love to bbq on gas and we frequently do in summer, I cut my lawn with petrol and maintain it using organic fertiliser.

WTF are you supposed to do, short of becoming a hermit?

I do plenty but I also accept that my DC are going to live in a very different world. In fact (and I know this will be unacceptable to some people) I have always been fairly honest with my DC that the future is looking pretty bleak and hectic and there are likely to be fires, flood, mass migration and a lot of unrest. But I am building their compassion, their community strength and told them we are all in the same boat, they have to be strong, look after other people and do what they can.
I know this sounds flippant but . . . millions of people all over the world are already in a living hell. What makes us in the west think we are immune?

We're just gonna have to suck it up, lose loved ones. lose our homes, lose our land, lose our livelihoods, fight for our survival - like millions of other humans are having to do every single day because of our collective complacency.

Do people think if we all made changes collectively it would make a difference? I have, don’t drive a car, vegan, recycle every thing, stopped flying I can but I could do more. I hate the idea of DC living in a world that we’ve collectively fucked up and can’t be arsed to do anything about.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/feb/17/february-on-course-to-break-unprecedented-number-of-heat-records

I seem to have become your pet project. Let’s agree to disagree from my perspective the whole thing is led by activists and their willingness to bring chaos to society just gets my back up. So I will keep my views and will defend your right to have yours.

Thats hilarious. I’ve given you facts. Solid evidence. You’ve not been able to refute any of it sensibly. If you decide not to care and not to change your behaviour then that’s a difference of opinion. I would accept that. But you are basically saying you are hanging on to your opinion, despite me pointing out that the facts show it’s wrong. Incontrovertible facts. Things you will have seen with your own two eyes. At least in the film ‘Don’t Look Up’ when people could see the asteroid they started to believe it.

Climate change IS happening. We are causing it to happen way too rapidly. Our survival is at risk. Life is going to get increasingly difficult. We could choose, collectively, to lessen the worst of it.

You can choose to block your ears and eyes but it won’t stop it happening. I’m sorry.

So pleased I bought happiness and hilarity to your morning shall we stop now.

People still have to live.

I do think it is a way to control people and for the government to make money out of the electorate

Ulez is a nightmare yet we still have all those motorcycles from food delivery driving about suddenly appearing after lock down. Why are they necessary?

You know when the Government make money, that it’s for public services and infrastructure right? Sure, some MPs have fiddled their expenses. The current lot have a track record of cronyism. But the money made is public money. OUR money. We might not agree with how it’s spent but come election time we can use our vote to express how we want it used.

How is ULEZ a nightmare? All it did was punish a minuscule number of drivers with old and not-quite-classic cars or diesels.

Did not go far enough. Sick if seeing massive range rovers whizzing around. Usually to drop the kids at school 0.5 miles from home because people are allergic to walking.

DdraigGoch · Yesterday 02:14
Activists should glue themselves to private jets and superyachts. They'll actually have support from the public as well as making a real difference to emissions. I'd even buy the glue.

There’s another thread, an AMA by a poster who used to work at a private airport and she says it would be nigh on impossible to glue yourself to a private jet. Maybe you should take up the challenge?

More so as we get older did care before not as much
Me and my OH feel guilty re our cars, a massive/propery diesel Range Rover, a massive MB diesel - and big engined petrol 2 door sports car.

We have considered an EV - but lack of charging points, and battery life/mileage etc, we are not convinced.

It was a nightmare for those in the outer boroughs who were not well off and could not afford to replace their cars and those who bought a diesel in good faith a few years ago

Those stupid learner bikes are a liability

This is a really interesting thread, and I think a good discussion to have in real life too. I think almost everyone will care to come extent (the extent will vary hugely of course). Almost everyone will be willing to make SOME sacrifices/adjustments, but again these vary hugely. Consequently, where exactly we all draw the line if hugely important, and if discussion changes it even a little bit in the right direction - how great! Adjustments I HAVE made:

• Don't fly anywhere - haven't since I became climate-aware.
• stopped at one child.
• but vast majority of our stuff (clothes, hooks furniture etc) second hand.
• I don't drive, I use public transport.
• degree of self-sufficiency (have an allotment) which we will increase as we get older.

Things I haven't done but know I should, ethically speaking:

• become vegan - I know I should - I just don't like vegan food that much.
• given up shopping new altogether (I still sometimes order pointless plastic shit for me or for gifts - I feel guilty but I do it.
• I do have one child, the most selfish thing you can do in terms of harm to the planet.
• my husband has vehicles (cars, vans, motorbikes) and I let him drive me around.
• I have a pet dog and a cat and will have more pets when I can, tho again I know full well that the carbon footprint is HUGE.

So I'm pretty awful really. But I could easily just talk about the first bit and make myself sound saintly. It would be nonsense.

Personally I don't really think anything will change unless globally governments adopt a radically different policy - small personal changes in our individual lives can never be enough. Nontheless, it is better to light a candle than curse the darkness, always......

@greengreengrass25 but as I say, the majority of cars aren't affected. Seems to have a lot of ideological opposition more than anything.

People I know affected had a diesel (uncommon), a nice but older car (1993), car with a fault so emissions are high. Most cars are fine.

The only problem with ULEZ is that it targeted the wrong people. A tiny car from 2000 is apparently worse than a gigantic brand new 2023 Range Rover.

I want to know what criteria they used to base this on - particulates per part or gross weight. Because the latter would be utterly stupid and pointless.

Oh well, did we really expect our government to come up with a sensible policy?

So, the people who did have to give up their car are being inconvenienced; whilst others are somehow allowed to continue polluting massive amounts and pollute indirectly but purchasing brand new cars.

Nope. The day the elites start giving all their money to actual charity and become one of us small fry is the day I will start caring, so never.
Besides, as pp have pointed out 70% of the entire problem comes from big corps. They can f off. How dare they trying to guilt trip small ppl, it is outrageous.
Also, find it very iffy how apparently the problem can be solved by us being taxed more... very strange that...

1. that argument about ‘elites’ is spurious. I’ll stop slapping my wife if Joe Bloggs stops punching his. Base your values on what YOU think is right, not what the worst people do.
2. How do big corps make their money? WE buy the stuff. Use the services. WE have the power to impact big corps by consuming less and consuming conscientiously.
3. What tax? Who is taxing us more to effect climate change? The oil industry is massively subsided by tax payer money.

No

Watch a channel on YouTube called Bald and Bankrupt going through the Darian gap in Panama, what the people passing through have done to a beautiful jungle. We have to pay through the nose yet a big part of the world are surviving from minute to minute, worrying about the climate is a luxury.

Worrying about climate definitely isn't a luxury. People in the Global South are the ones most affected by it

What is a luxury is overconsumption, and living in a wealthy western nation that has a temperate climate. We are the consumers driving this. Brushing it off as a luxury belief is bonkers.

Of course it's a luxury, just like most of the daft things in the west, it's an ideology, if you're trying to feed your children you're not going to give a hoot about the polar bears, plastic in the ocean etc.. yes I know they are bearing the brunt but they don't care.

Someone sent me a meme yesterday that showed 600 private jets leaving LA after the Superbowl with the tag "and the rest of us have to use paper straws and reusable bags to save the planet"

I get the argument about still needing to play our part even if others don't, but it sticks in the craw sometimes.

They don't care because the people you talk about live in absolute poverty. How many people have access to the education and research we do? Even if they do care, because their village is flooded (Asia) or westerners are dumping mountains of clothes (Ghana) or their children don't have water because there's a drought (the Sahel) - they can't do anything to stop it.

I think what you meant to say was you don't care.

Of all the excuses, this is one of the worst. Just say you don't really care and crack on. Why try and discourage others?