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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To get really irate when 'Religion' is taught as 'fact' even though I chose not to send dc's to a religious school?

59 replies

Dabbles · 22/03/2008 20:48

I was raised catholic, but have questioned my faith. Through studying aspects of my religion adn through experience of those who, let us say "live by the cloth", I have decided it is not for me. Dh is not religious. We intentionally chose to send dcs to non religious school, and encourage then to question things they are taught, but give them the option to believe what they choose. However I do not liek the fact that they are encouraged to 'pray' before lunch and taught christmas/easter as 'historical fact'.

AIBU? I really do not see a place for religion in modern day society, science yes, religion, no.

OP posts:
Original poster
Dabbles · 22/03/2008 20:49

BUT!! Each to their own, and if you believe then I do envy you.

OP posts:
RosaIsRed · 22/03/2008 20:52

What really gets on my tits is that RE is now compulsory to GCSE. And before anyone starts going on about how it is all about comparative religion and philosophy and ethics: in that case why not CALL it philosophy and ethics.
You wouldn't set up a GCSE in UFO studies and say, but it is all about astronomy and physics and after all we have to respect the beliefs of people who believe in UFOs. Well, would you?

Greyriverside · 22/03/2008 20:53

YANBU, Dabbles. I agree absolutely, but I didn't think they DID that in non religious schools.

I'm especially amazed at praying before lunch which must make any from different religions even more uncomfortable.

As for easter/christmas, are they teaching that there was a man this was based on or teaching that he was god?

Original poster
Dabbles · 22/03/2008 20:53

'hear hear' Rosa!

OP posts:
Original poster
Dabbles · 22/03/2008 20:54

Jesus - son of God. Just you know reading the story, dd very young, but its the way its taught, its not "this is a story..." its, "this is a historical fact"

OP posts:
Crunchie · 22/03/2008 20:56

Dabbles there have been many discussions around this on these boards. IMHO if you send your child to a non-demonimational school they should not be taught 'fact' HOWEVER I do think it depends on the interpretation your child brings to things.

When a child dnces out of shool and says 'jesus died on teh cross for our sins you know' is hard for me as a Jewish mother. BUT I think you can temper it by saying 'some people believe that, others don't'.

I went into my local shcool to ask such a question, as i was upset tbh (However a church village school) and it was explained to me that 'some people believe' is the usual line taken.

Not 100% convinced but a few years on DD1 now says to DD2 not to believe as 'we are jewish and jesus is not for us!!'

Prayng before lunch is usually non-denomational and is 'lets say thanks for our food'

FairyMum · 22/03/2008 20:57

YANBU. I agree, but I talk about what they learn at home and "make them see sense"

Original poster
Dabbles · 22/03/2008 20:58

crunchie ... Prayng before lunch is usually non-denomational and is 'lets say thanks for our food'... they should say "lets all say thanks to your mummies for making your pack unch today! " lol

OP posts:
MegBusset · 22/03/2008 20:58

YANBU at all.

With regards to RE being a compulsory GCSE subject though, I believe you have a right to withdraw your child from RE at school and therefore they would not have to take the GCSE.

Crunchie · 22/03/2008 20:59

dabbles, then remind your dd that is what she should pary for then. Pray that ,u,,y has made a halfway edible packed lunch (Or in our house that daddy has!!)

Heated · 22/03/2008 21:01

Tell the govt. Schools have to offer a daily act of worship, inlcuding the non-denom ones - or get castigated by Ofsted.

RosaIsRed · 22/03/2008 21:01

Well, my 10-year-old atheist will be starting secondary school in September so we will see how that goes, Meg! It is up to her, but if she wants to opt out of RE I will back her to the hilt.

Mercy · 22/03/2008 21:03

Agree with much of what crunchie says.

I am surprised that an non-denomonational school would say grace. And equally would question the 'historical fact' that your dc has told you about.

Jesus was a real person. So that is a fact. God is a whole different ball game imo.

Mercy · 22/03/2008 21:05

Heated, are you sure about that?

Piffle · 22/03/2008 21:07

atheist ds1 has had issue after issue as a vocal sceptic chsllenging his RE teacher. To a point where a formal complaint was upheld and teacher disciplined.
My son yr9 now participates fully. I was prepared to withdraw him. However I have to imbed in his brain that religion may not be his choice but it is the choice of billions of people, it has important historical impact and for him to be ignorant of the subject would be worse. Fwiw the curriculum is excellent. Only slight issue with hefty focus on Christianity in yr8. Short course RE is compulsory at gcse and I hope ds1 continues and gains a good mark.

MegBusset · 22/03/2008 21:07

Heated is correct, the daily 'act of worship' is a legal requirement for all schools including non-faith ones.

Heated · 22/03/2008 21:08

Yes, it's a requirement.

See this article here when a school tried to disapply:

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/sep/23/schools.faithschools

I think, if a school's intake exceeds a certain quota, like the majority of pupils say were Hindu, then you can disapply.

aviatrix · 22/03/2008 21:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Heated · 22/03/2008 21:15

Ppl's faith or lack of is personal but I would like them to at least have the information, imo is good general knowledge if nothing else. Couldn't quite believe I had to explain the creation story to some of my sixth form (was teaching Blake).

You'd really like Emmanuel College in the NE that teaches creationism as fact

Original poster
Dabbles · 22/03/2008 21:15

wow- did not know that about it being compulsary(sp), ty!

OP posts:
Elasticwoman · 22/03/2008 21:19

OP - do not worry. I had 13 years of Roman Catholic education and they failed to indoctrinate me with the infallibility of the pope. My dad used to play devil's advocate at home. A child who discusses things with articulate parents will make up their own mind. It's the ones who face bigots both at home and at school that I worry about. Not saying that all believers are bigots, of course.

As a teacher, my experience is the opposite: ie, that children are incredibly ignorant these days about Christian belief, and the Bible regardless of whether they believe in God or not. My dd has only one period of RE per fortnight and that may not necessarily be about Christianity.

wheresthehamster · 22/03/2008 21:21

RE compulsory up to GCSE. It's the school's decision if GCSE is compulsory.

Not religious myself so I think it's quite good the dds learn about all religions. Also learn about Christianity in context with other religions.

Daily act of worship hmm. In our infants' school the HT says "Dear God, Thank you for our teachers and teaching assistants etc".
As these are earthly things I would rather the Dear God bit was left out. Maybe just some give thanks for our health and food that sort of thing.

Piffle · 22/03/2008 21:37

I agree if my son is to be an outspoken atheist then I would rather he not debate from a point of ignorance.

Mercy · 22/03/2008 21:46

I read that link in a different way tbh.

My dc school certainly does not have a daily act of worship.

Elkat · 22/03/2008 23:10

I'm an atheist, but I am a RE teacher too. The law does state that there has to be a daily act of worship, which is something that I strongly disagree with and as a parent will not allow my daughter to be forced into doing if she does not want to. I will exercise my right of withdrawal if needs be.

However, I can and do see the point of studying RE. I agree that it should never be taught as fact, but do believe that RS can help us to understand those around us of different beliefs as well as making students think about existential questions themselves. In most other subjects, students are taught things as facts, but the joy of RS is that there are very few 'facts' (at least to do with the existential questions). On many of the issues, I'm still making up my mind - let alone the kids! I think it gives a rare opportunity for children to really explore issues and to decide what they think, not what they are told. When RE is done well, I think it provides a unique opportunity in children's education, that I think many parents do not realise.
HTh