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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this is a fucking joke - A@E wait?

503 replies

CanNeverThinkOfAName · 11/02/2024 04:42

So our local hospital serves 350,000 residents from a large area.

Arrived at A&E at 11pm. Expected it to be packed and to have a long wait. There were around 15 patients waiting. At 3am there were 4 still in the waiting area plus us.

From that time only one person has been called to see a doctor and at least 10 people have gone out after being seen.

Ambulance staff check patients in near where we are sitting and only 3 have checked in since we got here.

Obviously not a busy night.

AIBU to think this is totally piss take and the staff must be on a bloody go slow or something?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
NotQuiteHere · 11/02/2024 09:20

JacquesHarlow · 11/02/2024 09:11

There are too many staff whose entire job seems to be admin, and too few actively caring for patients.

How on earth can you actually KNOW this @NotTerfNorCis ?!

I get very frustrated reading this kind of “I know it all from sitting in front of house”. You can’t see behind the curtain, you don’t know every patient’s circumstances.

Do you not get it? You are in the front of house bit of A&E; so you will see admin staff!

That’s like saying “I am in a GP surgery and all I can see are receptionists, therefore there aren’t enough doctors..”

No, we cannot know what is going on behind the scenes but given that the waiting times are utterly unacceptable, we have the right to ask what exactly is going. You don't know that, too. And we all clearly witnessed many cases of inefficient management in all areas, including NHS.

JudgeJ · 11/02/2024 09:22

Beepbopadooda · 11/02/2024 04:45

The only thing to blame here is the persistent underfunding of the NHS, not staff.

The usual simple answer, ignoring how the NHS wastes much of its funding on non-medical things, some of the job titles they've invented are a joke.

MumblesParty · 11/02/2024 09:25

When I worked in A&E in the early 1990s, in a department that served 600,000 people, there were 2 doctors on duty during the night. One night there was a fight at a party nearby, and 2 men came in, both on foot. One had an abdominal laceration (intestines literally dangling out) and the other had a punctured lung. My colleague and I were busy with these 2 patients for a few hours. We emerged from the resus room to about 50 waiting patients. Trust me, we hadn’t been on a go-slow!

Voerendaal · 11/02/2024 09:25

I am sorry you are having to wait - it is horrible waiting to be seen with an ill child. However you have no idea what is going on behind thd doors.
There may be sick patients in resus who have been there for hours waiting for an acute bed in the hospital who need close monitoring from ED staff while still in the department. Those patients may have to stay until someone in the hospital is discharged ( or sadly dies). No discharges happen at night for obvious reasons.
The department may be very short staffed.
There may be a patient who has delirium or mental health crisis requiring 1:1 nursing.
There are many reasons why sometimes the department seems quiet but lots is going on in the background. Please be polite and ask reception or triage if your child can be reassessed if you think she is worse.

Sirzy · 11/02/2024 09:25

Having to wait is horrible especially when struggling BUT the fact your waiting doesn’t mean the staff aren’t doing anything, what you see from the waiting room doesn’t reflect what’s going on behind the scenes.

when Ds was in resus at one point he had 3 doctors working on him. When he was on the ward a few days later he ended up with 4 doctors working on him two of whom where called up from peads A and E. people sat in the waiting room won’t have seen any of that going on though.

hope she has been seen and treated now.

Bunbryist · 11/02/2024 09:26

Whiskyinajar · 11/02/2024 09:03

Tell me you've never worked in a&e without telling me you're never worked in a&e 🤣

The ignorance in the OP is breathtaking.

Hopefully the OPs adult child has now been seen.

The OP has no idea what issues came in with the few ambulances. Not does she have any idea how many staff are on duty and what other areas they are potentially having to cover. Not to mention trying to find beds for people admitted.

But yeah....they are on the go slow

Those who have suffered (three days in a chair for something requiring surgery before leaving the building) know that triage rarely leads to a patient's place in the queue changing.
The woman who was unconscious under a coat in Nottingham who later died was not assessed according to her needs.
I have seen amazing effort and work by many staff in A&E, but those who are a danger to patients need to be called out and sacked - they only add to NHS challenges.

Livelovebehappy · 11/02/2024 09:27

More education needed. Too many people use A&E as a walk in surgery, especially on a weekend when GPs are closed. Many could wait til Monday to see their GP but choose to use A&E. and many use it as a family night/day out and drag all their relatives there too. Or at least they do at my local A&E, which inflates the appearance of people waiting.

lookwhatyoudidthere · 11/02/2024 09:28

Hospitals deal with patients in priority order, so internal bleeding will have been deemed less urgent than whatever other admittances have been taking place. They may also be trying to secure a bed for your adult DD. If you and your DD find the wiring system unbearable, there is also the option to pay privately - this will lessen the queue for you and others.

Livelovebehappy · 11/02/2024 09:29

JudgeJ · 11/02/2024 09:22

The usual simple answer, ignoring how the NHS wastes much of its funding on non-medical things, some of the job titles they've invented are a joke.

Exactly. So many layers of management now, it’s a joke. Who are also running it badly. Too many chiefs and all that……

AllInANightsWork · 11/02/2024 09:29

People like you drive me mad op.
I've just arrived home from my night shift. Let me tell you about it shall I.
Aside from the usual drunks and walking patients we had via ambulance...
X2 fatal heart attacks.
X4 suspected heart attacks.
X4 road traffic accidents.
X1 scalded baby.
X2 broken femur in elderly patients
X1 appendicitis
X1 DV patient
X1 kidney problems ( suspected cancer )
X1 fractured skull
That's just for starters!
So, while we're busy working behind the scenes, which you won't know as we have different entrances for ambulances, depending on whether the patient is critical or needing immediate resuscitation.
So you may have seen 3 ambulances come in, but there may be 9 others coming in via different entrances.
Then you might see me and my colleagues ' day around doing nothing ' but are we really?
Nope, we're waiting for lab results coming back, we're chasing up lab results, we're waiting for x-ray results, we might even be waiting for the critical ambulance to arrive after a call on that little red telephone.
Equally, we might be waiting for the doctor, who has been called to that critical ambulance to return and tell us the diagnosis of the previous patient they saw prior to that and what treatment to give.
Then we have a patient like you, who goes mouthing off at the receptionist about that woman whose just arrived and been taken straight through, when they've been sat waiting for hours. Well, that woman is actually the daughter of a heart attack patient, who has rushed to the hospital to be at her father's side, while desperately hoping he's still alive.
Oh, and that's without the woman who smacked my face and called me a thick bitch when I was trying to explain that I couldn't personally fix the vending machine and the bloke who grabbed my arse while I was trying to glue his head.
However, if you think you can run it better, then why don't you train to be a nurse and join us.
Or better still, shut the fuck up with your griping and count yourself lucky that you've got an A+E to moan about!

MumblesParty · 11/02/2024 09:30

Livelovebehappy · 11/02/2024 09:27

More education needed. Too many people use A&E as a walk in surgery, especially on a weekend when GPs are closed. Many could wait til Monday to see their GP but choose to use A&E. and many use it as a family night/day out and drag all their relatives there too. Or at least they do at my local A&E, which inflates the appearance of people waiting.

someone I know went to A&E recently with a 6 month history of cyclical breast pain!

Deliadidit · 11/02/2024 09:30

YANBU. Nobody should be waiting up to 14 hours in A&E regardless of the reasons that it’s happening. How we’ve got to the situation that it had been allowed to become this bad is just shocking.

Newyeargrinch · 11/02/2024 09:31

Our local hospital has been reporting 20 hour waits and asking people to avoid coming unless absolutely necessary.

NotQuiteHere · 11/02/2024 09:31

AllInANightsWork · 11/02/2024 09:29

People like you drive me mad op.
I've just arrived home from my night shift. Let me tell you about it shall I.
Aside from the usual drunks and walking patients we had via ambulance...
X2 fatal heart attacks.
X4 suspected heart attacks.
X4 road traffic accidents.
X1 scalded baby.
X2 broken femur in elderly patients
X1 appendicitis
X1 DV patient
X1 kidney problems ( suspected cancer )
X1 fractured skull
That's just for starters!
So, while we're busy working behind the scenes, which you won't know as we have different entrances for ambulances, depending on whether the patient is critical or needing immediate resuscitation.
So you may have seen 3 ambulances come in, but there may be 9 others coming in via different entrances.
Then you might see me and my colleagues ' day around doing nothing ' but are we really?
Nope, we're waiting for lab results coming back, we're chasing up lab results, we're waiting for x-ray results, we might even be waiting for the critical ambulance to arrive after a call on that little red telephone.
Equally, we might be waiting for the doctor, who has been called to that critical ambulance to return and tell us the diagnosis of the previous patient they saw prior to that and what treatment to give.
Then we have a patient like you, who goes mouthing off at the receptionist about that woman whose just arrived and been taken straight through, when they've been sat waiting for hours. Well, that woman is actually the daughter of a heart attack patient, who has rushed to the hospital to be at her father's side, while desperately hoping he's still alive.
Oh, and that's without the woman who smacked my face and called me a thick bitch when I was trying to explain that I couldn't personally fix the vending machine and the bloke who grabbed my arse while I was trying to glue his head.
However, if you think you can run it better, then why don't you train to be a nurse and join us.
Or better still, shut the fuck up with your griping and count yourself lucky that you've got an A+E to moan about!

This is a terrible response. If you hate your job and your patients that much, you need to leave.

NotQuiteHere · 11/02/2024 09:33

MumblesParty · 11/02/2024 09:30

someone I know went to A&E recently with a 6 month history of cyclical breast pain!

So what? Did they take up all available resources?

Isitovernow123 · 11/02/2024 09:33

NotQuiteHere · 11/02/2024 09:31

This is a terrible response. If you hate your job and your patients that much, you need to leave.

It’s not terrible, it’s just honest. Unfortunately people don’t like honesty. I think we need a lot more of it.

QueenBean22 · 11/02/2024 09:35

AllInANightsWork · 11/02/2024 09:29

People like you drive me mad op.
I've just arrived home from my night shift. Let me tell you about it shall I.
Aside from the usual drunks and walking patients we had via ambulance...
X2 fatal heart attacks.
X4 suspected heart attacks.
X4 road traffic accidents.
X1 scalded baby.
X2 broken femur in elderly patients
X1 appendicitis
X1 DV patient
X1 kidney problems ( suspected cancer )
X1 fractured skull
That's just for starters!
So, while we're busy working behind the scenes, which you won't know as we have different entrances for ambulances, depending on whether the patient is critical or needing immediate resuscitation.
So you may have seen 3 ambulances come in, but there may be 9 others coming in via different entrances.
Then you might see me and my colleagues ' day around doing nothing ' but are we really?
Nope, we're waiting for lab results coming back, we're chasing up lab results, we're waiting for x-ray results, we might even be waiting for the critical ambulance to arrive after a call on that little red telephone.
Equally, we might be waiting for the doctor, who has been called to that critical ambulance to return and tell us the diagnosis of the previous patient they saw prior to that and what treatment to give.
Then we have a patient like you, who goes mouthing off at the receptionist about that woman whose just arrived and been taken straight through, when they've been sat waiting for hours. Well, that woman is actually the daughter of a heart attack patient, who has rushed to the hospital to be at her father's side, while desperately hoping he's still alive.
Oh, and that's without the woman who smacked my face and called me a thick bitch when I was trying to explain that I couldn't personally fix the vending machine and the bloke who grabbed my arse while I was trying to glue his head.
However, if you think you can run it better, then why don't you train to be a nurse and join us.
Or better still, shut the fuck up with your griping and count yourself lucky that you've got an A+E to moan about!

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

ChaosAndCrumbs · 11/02/2024 09:36

RiderofRohan · 11/02/2024 07:33

As a GP who works for a UCC attached to a busy A&E, I can tell you there is lots of misuse. Recently I've had:

1- child spiked a fever last night. No fever today but not eating at all. Now child running around the consultation room, pulling down curtains and drumming in the bins with a mouth full of haribo.
2- 20 something year old going on holiday. Had surgery to remove her tonsils a month ago. Coming in 'just to check' everything is in order before her flight tomorrow. She has no symptoms.
3- multiple family members presenting with minor symptoms because one family member was sick enough to need a&e. But 'given we're already here' might as well get the whole family checked. No, never tried to see their own GP about these symptoms.

I'd say around half of what I see is very minor, long term illness (with no acute presentation) or not illness at all. Bear in mind these are the ones triaged to me, which is around a third of those presenting to the a&e. The sicker ones will be triaged to majors, paeds, etc.

Luckily my a&E has a good triage system and, as above, a lot of this stuff comes to me. As a GP I can see most, treat and discharge in 15 minutes. Still, people get upset and up in arms that I'm not ordering blood tests and x-rays for minor ailments or conditions they've had for years. 'Why did I bother coming to accident and emergency?' they say. I'm not sure myself, given it's not an accident or an emergency.

To balance this though, there are also a huge amount of us general public who feel awful about having to go to A&E because we know how under pressure they are and end up in a worse position as we delay getting care.

It’s also not just patients who don’t need to be seen causing issues, I’ve had some frustrating situations with GPs. My son has a chronic kidney condition. As a baby he had severe recurrent infections that would cause spiking fevers and very serious symptoms if allowed to develop. As the samples showed pseudomonas bacteria, I requested for the specialist to write a letter asking GPs to treat with the correct antibiotic upon first diagnosing infection and then confirm via culture (usually twice to confirm not contaminated) - otherwise he was hospitalised prior to confirmation. I had a GP refuse to read this letter, try to refuse to test the urine (massive crystals that even I could see were concerning) and, upon testing, told me to go A&E and would not listen to me explaining it was treatable with the right antibiotic. I felt awful and kept apologising to the A&E staff for wasting time. I had multiple incidents similar to that where GPs not listening meant I kept having to attend A&E, despite the specialist having said they could treat early symptoms via GP.

I’ve also had nightmares during pregnancy and labour, including a Consultant threatening to call the police because I (politely, no shouting or anything) disagreed with him putting my ds on NICU purely for observations and had asked to wait for if and until symptoms developed so he could stay with me. We later found out this was related to lack of trained staff and the NICU matron luckily stepped in to say we could move hospitals instead (a huge relief, but also a stress as less than a week before due date and they’d known my information and how I felt from the booking appointment).

These types of experiences aren’t uncommon or unique to me as such. And yes I’ve made some mistakes too - like my dd appearing unable to walk properly (turned out to be ear related balance issue that looked serious because of Hypermobility but wasn’t at all). However, most of us feel silly and guilty when we realise it’s not an issue, even though the appearance made it a valid reason for attending A&E.

A huge number of NHS staff are fantastic. A lot of us know they’re overworked and understaffed and underfunded. However, there are some who are not fantastic, there are some who make desperately trying to seek very needed care difficult and there’s a system that is so underfunded it perpetuates this. My vote won’t make a difference as such as I always vote Labour anyway (short period of Lib Dem when voting tactically in different area). I’ll still be voting though.

I think a lot of issues come down to lack of care prior to A&E. There are lots of people waiting huge times to be seen for chronic illnesses that wreck their day to day life, there are lots of people struggling to get GP appointments, dealing with children with escalating mental health issues due to lack of access to SEN care and inability to access medication and diagnosis (4-5y process) and dealing with medication shortages and that’s all going to increase A&E pressures.

NotQuiteHere · 11/02/2024 09:36

Isitovernow123 · 11/02/2024 09:33

It’s not terrible, it’s just honest. Unfortunately people don’t like honesty. I think we need a lot more of it.

It should work both ways though, shouldn't it?

QueenBean22 · 11/02/2024 09:37

NotQuiteHere · 11/02/2024 09:31

This is a terrible response. If you hate your job and your patients that much, you need to leave.

Where does it say she hates her job?

recklessgran · 11/02/2024 09:37

Please, please don't blame the staff. My best friend has been in A&E resus since Friday afternoon. She is very seriously ill with a very complicated heart problem and collapsed when we were having lunch together in a cafe. The staff looking after her have been completely amazing and all credit to them that DF is still here but in order for her to still be alive she had to have a cardiologist supervising her care for nine hours continually. So that's an extra 9 hours another [not so seriously ill] cardio patient has had to wait to see a specialist. There are NO beds either in intensive care or in the wards - the place is rammed to the gunnells so God knows how long DF will be there. But she's here.
On the flip side of the coin one of my DD's is a doctor and sometimes there are NO A&E docs on duty at all and she and colleagues has been deployed from the wards to see patients there. Honestly, I understand how distressing the waiting is but the staffing situation is beyond dire and morale low because everyone's aware that they simply can't work quickly enough to get through all the patients and difficult decisions have to be made. I hope your DD is O.K. and gets help soon OP.

user1984778379202 · 11/02/2024 09:39

AllInANightsWork · 11/02/2024 09:29

People like you drive me mad op.
I've just arrived home from my night shift. Let me tell you about it shall I.
Aside from the usual drunks and walking patients we had via ambulance...
X2 fatal heart attacks.
X4 suspected heart attacks.
X4 road traffic accidents.
X1 scalded baby.
X2 broken femur in elderly patients
X1 appendicitis
X1 DV patient
X1 kidney problems ( suspected cancer )
X1 fractured skull
That's just for starters!
So, while we're busy working behind the scenes, which you won't know as we have different entrances for ambulances, depending on whether the patient is critical or needing immediate resuscitation.
So you may have seen 3 ambulances come in, but there may be 9 others coming in via different entrances.
Then you might see me and my colleagues ' day around doing nothing ' but are we really?
Nope, we're waiting for lab results coming back, we're chasing up lab results, we're waiting for x-ray results, we might even be waiting for the critical ambulance to arrive after a call on that little red telephone.
Equally, we might be waiting for the doctor, who has been called to that critical ambulance to return and tell us the diagnosis of the previous patient they saw prior to that and what treatment to give.
Then we have a patient like you, who goes mouthing off at the receptionist about that woman whose just arrived and been taken straight through, when they've been sat waiting for hours. Well, that woman is actually the daughter of a heart attack patient, who has rushed to the hospital to be at her father's side, while desperately hoping he's still alive.
Oh, and that's without the woman who smacked my face and called me a thick bitch when I was trying to explain that I couldn't personally fix the vending machine and the bloke who grabbed my arse while I was trying to glue his head.
However, if you think you can run it better, then why don't you train to be a nurse and join us.
Or better still, shut the fuck up with your griping and count yourself lucky that you've got an A+E to moan about!

This is the only response worth reading on this thread.

WookieWoo · 11/02/2024 09:39

Those saying there is too much management in the NHS - managers include IT, estates, waiting list management, theatres, outpatient areas, rotas, HR, domestic services, portering... All of these functions are vital to keep patients and staff safe and require "management". You do not want clinical staff to be spending their time on these things so you need fully supported services to help a hospital to work. I would suggest finding an evidence source more balanced than the Daily Mail going forward.

I can assure you that any A&E will have far more going on behind the scenes than most patients in the waiting room can imagine.

wronginalltherightways · 11/02/2024 09:39

ParsnipAndPoppy · 11/02/2024 05:22

If that’s true how do you explain the finding that productivity is in quite rapid decline? According to the IFS:

“The NHS has more funding and more staff than pre-pandemic, but the number of patients being treated in hospital has increased by nowhere near the same amount. On the face of it, that implies that the system has become less productive – and alarmingly so.”

and

“The less productive the NHS is, the more the government – and therefore current or future taxpayers – have to spend for the same quality and quantity of healthcare services.”

Yes there are other factors when looking at how time is used but when staffing has gone up by as much as 25% in some roles but treatment volumes either fell or increased by less than 2% you need to question what is actually going on.

Figure 1. Hospital staffing and treatment volumes in 2023 compared with 2019

Ah, yes, the IFS said so so it must be true.

Except the IFS is a right wing, fiscally conservative, don't tax the wealthy organisation who is supported by people who want to privatize the NHS....

I'm sorry A&E is letting your down, OP, but this truly is an underfunding, understaffing situation across the country whether you can visibly see it in your A&E chair or not.

I hope your daughter is ok and gets the treatment she needs.

YoBeaches · 11/02/2024 09:40

AllInANightsWork · 11/02/2024 09:29

People like you drive me mad op.
I've just arrived home from my night shift. Let me tell you about it shall I.
Aside from the usual drunks and walking patients we had via ambulance...
X2 fatal heart attacks.
X4 suspected heart attacks.
X4 road traffic accidents.
X1 scalded baby.
X2 broken femur in elderly patients
X1 appendicitis
X1 DV patient
X1 kidney problems ( suspected cancer )
X1 fractured skull
That's just for starters!
So, while we're busy working behind the scenes, which you won't know as we have different entrances for ambulances, depending on whether the patient is critical or needing immediate resuscitation.
So you may have seen 3 ambulances come in, but there may be 9 others coming in via different entrances.
Then you might see me and my colleagues ' day around doing nothing ' but are we really?
Nope, we're waiting for lab results coming back, we're chasing up lab results, we're waiting for x-ray results, we might even be waiting for the critical ambulance to arrive after a call on that little red telephone.
Equally, we might be waiting for the doctor, who has been called to that critical ambulance to return and tell us the diagnosis of the previous patient they saw prior to that and what treatment to give.
Then we have a patient like you, who goes mouthing off at the receptionist about that woman whose just arrived and been taken straight through, when they've been sat waiting for hours. Well, that woman is actually the daughter of a heart attack patient, who has rushed to the hospital to be at her father's side, while desperately hoping he's still alive.
Oh, and that's without the woman who smacked my face and called me a thick bitch when I was trying to explain that I couldn't personally fix the vending machine and the bloke who grabbed my arse while I was trying to glue his head.
However, if you think you can run it better, then why don't you train to be a nurse and join us.
Or better still, shut the fuck up with your griping and count yourself lucky that you've got an A+E to moan about!

Despite all of this, you know it isn't right for someone with suspected intestinal bleeding to be left on chairs in the waiting room for several hours.

It isn't right.

And it's not the fault of the staff like you. It's the fault of ill equipped management.

The NHS is in managed decline. It's not an accident. It is managed decline by its management.

So no matter how many patients you see of different conditions, it isn't enough to see everyone properly and within safe protocols.

It's shit, but you know it's shit. And so does everyone else.

It's shit.