To ask why do people not working claiming FSM get this for free?

[Sprinkledusting]

I’ve just discovered if you claim FSM and even if you’re not working, you can send your child to morning/after school club for free. And not just in our school either.
There are also sports clubs and holiday clubs during school holidays that state they are free for those who claim FSM. To claim free school meals your income has to be so low that you’re not working full time or not working at all, which of the people I know, most are not.
But those who are working have to pay for breakfast club/holiday clubs.

Can someone explain to me the logic behind this? As I simply don’t understand it.

Claim the childcare costs back through TC or UC. Hardly rocket science.

If it work more healthily for your family to cut your hours then see if you can reduce hours for a couple of years.

A few of them are 10am-2pm but there is one that is 9am-3pm which I use, I usually work 9-3 but the club is near my work and my manager is flexible in letting me shave 10mins off my day to drop off and pick up.
Annoyingly this Feb there is no 9-3 club so I've taken annual leave to cover it myself.

Not sure why you are talking about my kids, they don’t get FSM and don’t need it.

This thread is about the fact that FSM unlock a number of free services making it unfair for families that don’t qualify but also can’t afford to pay for these services (bk club, holiday club…) - what about their children?

No l mean they start earning enough to be able to pay for holiday and after school clubs etc but as they are still entitled to it for free, they use it. - because it's free.

I don't understand what you mean about 'not meeting the criteria'. If you're on UC and you need childcare to work you can claim 85% of the costs back. The proviso is that it's Ofsted registered holiday clubs or BC or ASC and you and any partner are in paid work.

Obviously i can't speak for everyone, but going to use myself as an example.

I'm disabled, i'm on benefits, i'm entitled to the FSM, holiday clubs..etc.

I have 2 kids, the oldest is disabled and i'm his carer, my youngest is able bodied. A lot of my time and money is taken up keeping my car on the road so i can get DS to his appointments, pay for the equipment he needs, pay for the food he eats (he has an eating disorder on top of autism/adhd/dyspraxia) and looking after him, DD also helps out at home so is classed as a young carer.

Between my physical limitations (i have a crumbling spine and need a cane to walk) and the time DS takes up, DD misses out on a LOT, because i simply can't do stuff for her as by the time i've dealt with DS, my own disability and pain levels means i have nothing left in the tank for her, and her friends can't come here.

So, we take advantage of the after school clubs/holiday activities to enrich HER life and give HER all the opportunities that being stuck at home with myself mean she'd miss out on, and give her a break and time to be a normal child/teenager with her friends away from the home environment where she has to be more grown up than she should be.

Without the entitlement, we wouldn't be able to afford for her to do them.

I am sorry that you are also struggling, but you're welcome to spend a week in my shoes.

That must have been so hard for you and your Family. Suicide is especially hard.
My birth mother died when I was a young child because of illness..and that was hard enough. {Had to go to a ghastly day nursery all day so Dad could work}

there's nothing to be envious of.
these schemes are for the children because they are the ones unfortunate to have parents who don't earn enough in our capitalist systems (parents have different reasons for low income - partner died, illness, layoffs, poor childhood themselves). Yes, there are some who are just lazy, but this is also not the majority. The Conservatives have done a good job of demonising the poor, including poor children.

The death of a parent for a young child is horrendous, no matter the circumstances, Life changed forever.

we were lucky in a way that we had grandparents and aunts living close by that could help us out as a family with before and afterschool care, feeding us some days and supporting my bereaved parent through the worst time in their life but if we didn’t have that family support then we would have suffered.

Hmmm, I can see that you're struggling but perhaps you are not struggling as much as you think? Just offering a different perspective for you. Because Most people i know who are struggling don't have a home that they're trying to own themselves. They are in social housing in very rundown areas. The kids who had free meals when I was a child were from really awful areas.

And the other reason being that on paper the family has a low income , but often there is the nrp earning a decent wages, paying CM etc which is not considered at all for benefits or being eligible for fsm.

Breakfast club is not free for children on free school meals, this whole thread is based on something that isn't even true lol
Fsm does unlock half price school trips though

I mentioned your children because I presume that you are resentful that they don’t get free food, not that you don’t get free food.

It’s a universal good that the most vulnerable and in need children get food and opportunities. Would it be nice if this was extended beyond those that receive FSM? Yes.

But you and the rest of the people complaining about it are focusing on the wrong thing. It is pointless to resent and complain about needy children being supported- resent the system that created the inequality in the first place, and try and change that.

what about their children?

Statistics show that their children have better outcomes in health and education, and are at less risk of harm. So, in a system where the least support is given to the fewest people possible (and people still complain it isn’t fair), they won’t get extra support. The parents will be expected to provide for their own children.

Your child has the advantage of working parent who cares about setting them up for life. That's something.

In the same time, if slight reduction of your hours would position you better for the thresholds, it might be worth checking, you sounds to be under a lot of pressure and if there is some adjustment available for a few years, it might be the best for everyone in the long run.

Schools receive pupil premium money for pupils receiving FSM, school decides what to spend it on but must be able to demonstrate the impact on the pupils. It’s why everyone also has different experiences. I know previously for six years pupils received pupil premium money ( paid to school
not them) but not necessarily FSM if they were no no longer entitled. This was known as ever six, not sure if this has changed. The point of it is to improve chances for disadvantaged children which I’m not sure anyone can argue against. Of course it would be better if it helped more children but not sure we should be angry that some children are getting more life chances.

The point was not about luck or being fortunate, but that having a mortgage or privately renting is a lot more precarious.

There is a notion that working = financial security, whereas actually having a secure tenancy and claiming benefits is far more secure than paid employment in many ways. Theres much less financial risk.

You are absolutely jealous, and of kids who are in a worse situation than yours getting some benefit in life. It's really not a good look OP.

'BUT WHAT ABOUT ME!!' well its not the disadvantaged kids on free school meals that can do anything to help you, would you really feel better kicking the little bit of support away from them? The government has given a crumb to the poorest in society and instead of asking where the rest of the loaf is you want to steal the crumb from the 'less deserving' kid.

Your household income has to be less than £7400 A YEAR to claim FSM. How could you possibly question the fairness of these children receiving free lunch and access to clubs??

Have you seen the state of some council/HA properties?

Many social landlords don't give a shit if their tenants are living in crappy, mould ridden or even unsafe properties. Do I have to mention the glaringly obvious case?

The provisions for children eligible for FSM are based on statistics that show - as a population - they have poorer educational and life outcomes than the population of children who don't receive FSM. Making sure they have enough food on its own won't provide them with the other supportive factors they need.

Obviously there will be a wide range of different home situations for children who get FSM, but this isn't about scrutinising every individual child/family.

It is the same for other provision, such as for children with an EHCP, or with a parent in the armed forces, or LAC. On the whole their situation is likely to disadvantage them in a whole range of ways. And that disadvantage doesn't suddenly disappear once, for example, they no longer qualify for FSM, or are no longer in care, which is why provision doesn't stop the day they no longer qualify for FSM/leave care etc.

I don't begrudge them the extra support.

I would find it hard to begrudge anything additional for someone who gets to claim free school meals. I believe the income threshold is £7400. That doesn’t even seem enough to live on.

I can’t claim universal credit, tax free childcare or child benefit. I ofcourse don’t begrudge anyone else this.

That being said, I do think iT would be good to raise the threshold for free school meals and the other benefits it unlocks.

thats exactly what I’m talking about - you’re in a financially precarious situation vs someone with a secure tenancy.

Have you seen the state of some privately rented properties? The one I grew up in was full of black mould. Very good day when my parents moved into a council house after waiting on the list for ten years. Not to mention the rent being half as much
Im privately renting myself now and the landlord is trying to sell. You don't have to deal with that in council homes.

The person you're replying to was right having a secure tenancy goes miles in making life easy, just saying

@Needathickskin
You may see it all as stigma free, but as you can see just from some of the comments on this thread, it is very far from it.
We certainly don't lack aspiration, actually the problem was that we aspired to more than others insisted was were our place should be!

We refused FSM, and it's associated free places on clubs and holiday schemes.
School however used our theoretical 'entitlement' to FSM and the idea that poverty and aspiration intervention was therefore automatically needed, to claim therefore the school had greater needs than it had.

We used to get details of FSM eligibility places for all sorts of things because school were handing our details to schemes as being eligible for free places, and not mentioning that we were not actually in receipt of FSM so wouldn't be able to apply for the free place even if we had been interested. Hence we never engaged with the schemes.

We spent a lot of time being creative and my children and myself chose what we wanted to do within the range of museums, exhibitions, etc. I took on unsustainable long term extra night shifts for things like theater and panto, and knowing why mum was tired certainly did my kids understanding of it you want it, find a way to work for it, no damage.

Spending time as part of a family relaxing and enjoying doing things together has its own value.
A lot of schemes thought their offerings were automatically better for my children than quality family time, which makes some interesting assumptions about both our and their expectations.

Just before SATs the school put on a free maths breakfast club with good tutor, for all. Many kids already had private tuition but didn't work.
One of mine signed up leading to claims it must be through hunger as he was good at maths. I protested loudly that maths was his favorite thing! Because it was aimed at better off kids they'd provided a feast of fresh butter croissants and hot chocolate. No one else turned up and despite a good breakfast at home, blooming hollow legs embarrassingly happily hoovered the lot! Maths tutor thought it funny, but school made it very clear that he wasn't who they wanted to attend, and in one stroke the rumors went from starved child to Greedy guts!

No one here begrudges others what they get, because they understand every choice has a price of some sort.