Scotland - care home. Who has the legal 'say'

[flourpot]

Looking for a bit of advice as I'm in a situation where I have POA for a relative and I disagree with the discharge team at hospital.

Relative is 93, has no capacity, no idea what's going on and lives upstairs flat. I think it would be dangerous to send her home.

Brief phone call today indicated the team think home with carers is acceptable

I did not realise that when the decision needed to be made about a care home it might not be my decision.

I'm struggling to find out whether my POA means I can disagree with the team at the hospital or if I have to accept their choice.

Any ideas?

This is what I'm looking for. Evidence to back this up. Legal proof. Everyone is saying I can decide but they are not listening to me

I'm not sure anyone was suggesting this as an option

Definitely second the advice to make it crystal clear, you won't be there, you won't be visiting, shopping, cleaning, taking to the loo etc etc, if she goes home.

They rely VERY heavily on family providing care, they will assume that you will do all this and that the care visits provided are between your visits. Unless you make it brutally clear thats not happening... thats what they'll go with.

@Sunnnybunny72
@WiddlinDiddlin

Thanks: I did say on the phone I can't do it anymore/. The anxiety I have had over the past few years terrified of what I was going to find when I went up, I have anxiety meds and I was clear that I. Wasn't taking about the effects on me but that's how worried I have been for her.

Things have declined so much in the past few weeks it just isn't safe anymore

I said I can't do it become life is falling apart around me and I'm actual a carer for DH

Age Concern have a PDF available on Powers of Attorney in Scotland. It has a section that may be helpful.

Sorry I can't link it.

Thank tou. It says nothing about this specific situation- nothing seems to have it in black and white which is why I'm not sure how to 'argue' the point without the legal backup.

@flourpot it's so frustrating for you, understandably.

Although I can't answer your POA question, could I suggest you having a look online at the community hospital they've suggested?

These tend to have specialist wards, are smaller and usually, ime, have fantastic staff.

It would also give you breathing space to research and approach care facilities that would be more suitable for your Mum.

Best wishes.

It has a section on the responsibilities of the person who has POA. It says what has to be considered - for example, trying to do what the person would want etc.

It also says it must be the "least restrictive option", which can mean home rather than care home.

If everyone agreed that a care home was necessary there would be no conflict. I think the problem you have is that the team looking after her say that home is what they recommend.

There is nothing in black and white because it is not a black and white situation.

In the care of people who have lost capacity for decision making, the person with POA must be considered when making decisions so that's the line I'd take when challenging this.

Also if she has not had an occupational therapy home visit to assess how she would manage at home and check the environment, I would absolutely insist on that too.

Is the pdf linked to here any use to you as it has some stuff about what if the attorney and medical staff disagree
https://www.mwcscot.org.uk/node/229

I'm looking to get a family member a live in carer or care home place as well and it is really confusing and time consuming. I phoned about 7 care homes a few days ago and one manager was incredibly helpful and gave me loads of time explaining everything in a lot of detail to me so maybe worth a shot.

You can also get support from PASS

https://careinfoscotland.scot/topics/your-rights/patient-advice-and-support-service/

I have reseated the hospital but it's not an option anymore as they say home isn't a care package will be adequate

Thanks. I understand my main priority as POA is to keep her safe. Anyone that thinks sending a 93 year old who has no idea what's happen around them into a flat with internal access stairs needs a new job. It's ridiculous.

As others have said, if she is deemed to lack capacity, there needs to be a best interests meeting and as the person with LPoA, you are the decision maker so you have to be included!

As long as she has sufficient funds, I don’t see how they could stop you moving her to a care home. If she is likely to run out of money in a few months though, social care may refuse to continue funding if they don’t consider she has eligible social care needs.

Sounds like a nightmare and a potential safeguarding issue if she were allowed to go home.

If you go to them and say that X care home have agreed to take her and she will be funding herself they can't prevent that. What they can do is say that they don't think it's necessary and they won't be involved either physically or financially.

You need to talk to care homes.

Thank you. It doesn't require hit the mark as the question is over where discharge will be too rather then resisting hospital discharge. It's so hard to find information but I will have a good read through that a bit later I juts skimmed and looked the the bit about hospital discharge.

I'm not resisting the medical discharge, I absolutely support it but the middle ground option mentioned of a community hospital with further assessment seems to be the most reasonable but the discharge team say no

Thank I will, it's first though and they are meeting in Monday so I'm hoping of some legal framework that can push it to the community hospital for interim care until this is worked out

This is what I'm trying to find. Some legal evidence that I can refuse for her to be home

@flourpot I absolutely understand that desire to keep her safe. I would feel the same. However your legal responsibility as a holder of POA is a bit more complicated than that:

https://www.publicguardian-scotland.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/registration/acting-as-an-attorney#:~:text=You%20must%20ensure%20that%20any,the%20powers%20granted%20to%20you.

I know everything about the POA, we discussed it many times, it's been register for 10 years, and I know exactly what she wanted. I'm not trying to act against her wishes I'm trying to advocate for her because I don't agree sending her home is the right thing for her.

I get that. So I think you need to argue the point that as holder of POA you must be consulted about this decision. And as previously mentioned, see if PASS can help you in advocating for her.

That's what I'm asking. If there is any legal information to back me up. If they are not listening to me I can't be forceful about refusing her to go home unless I know I have the legal 'call' - as things stand they are letting me believe they decide and my concerns are 'noted'

We both always thought the POA would allow me to make this decision when needed. The hospital discharge team seem to have the overall decision- I need to know if that's correct

I juts want to thank everyone who has offered help so far. I do really appreciate it and I'm sorry if I sound ranty. It's been a very long and stressful day today.

Thank you all

We have deputyship for our adult son and yes our decision can be over ridden if it’s felt it’s not in his best interests. Without deputyship big decisions were made in best interests anyway and us always involved so it doesn’t actually make much difference having it 🙄

I'm just can't see what part of sending her home would be in her best interest. If they can tell me that I'm all ears. Telling me they have alarms for after she has a fall and breaks her neck isn't really going to cut it. Leaving her alone in a flat with stairs for 12 hours overnight when she it is noted 'zimmer + supervision' in her hospital board for walking ability isn't in her best interest.