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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

My adult DD and her dad (my ex)

27 replies

Lilifer · 09/02/2024 13:42

I am divorced from the father of my kids ranging in age from 16-23 years old. I initiated the split after years of awful communication, some verbal abuse and emotional abuse, lack of respect, and some alcohol abuse (sporadic)

For the most part the split was relatively amicable in that my ex has been fair on the legal and financial side of things and for the most part we co parent fairly well, although there are moments of friction and tension still.

My 21 year old daughter finds her father really hard to deal with. The same issues I struggled with (lack of respect contempt selfishness and lack of empathy) she finds really frustrating Things kicked off over the weekend over an incident that happened with one of her siblings and she ended up having a huge row with him where she told him that she wasn't surprised his marriage had failed because he was so awful to try and communicate with. She pointed out to him that he has a bad relationship with his own mother (which is true as he has been really horrible to her on occasions in the past said really hurtful stuff) and he said really horrible stuff to her to her too, not the sort of thing a loving father would say to his daughter.

She now has gone back to college and he's texted her asking can they talk but she says she's not ready for that, and is still too upset with him.

He's not going to talk to me about it as he still blames me for our marriage breaking up, that I broke up our family, I want them to have a good relationship and not have the same issues I had, but there is nothing I can do is there? It would be great if he could see a counsellor with her like some kind of family therapy where they could air their issues with a neutral 3rd party to mediate them.

Otherwise their relationship is going to be strained and distant which is really sad. However he is not going to change at this stage in his life I think - and I'm left picking up the pieces for my DD as she is always going to challenge his behaviour and call him out on stuff.

Anyone any suggestion or ideas for how to deal with this. Posted in Aibu for more traffic. TIA

OP posts:
MojoMoon · 09/02/2024 13:47

You are correct that he is unlikely to change at this point.

Your daughter could consider some counselling on her own to explore her feelings towards her father and what sort of relationship - if any - she wants to have with him as an adult.

But ultimately she is an adult so all you can do is provide a listening ear if and when she wants to talk about it. It isn't something you can deal with on her behalf.

BruFord · 09/02/2024 13:55

Sadly, all you can do is be there for your DD. They’re both adults and have a separate relationship to yours.

Only he can make changes-and perhaps her telling him a few home truths could be the start of this?

Original poster
Lilifer · 09/02/2024 13:57

Actually yes that is a good point, she could benefit from some counselling on her own even without him being there.

My ex has told some other family members what his DD said to him and they are shocked and think it was really disrespectful of her but they have no idea of the background of the whole thing and how this has been building up for years and did not happen in a vaccum. DD is very fiery and feisty and she can be like that with me too but we try and keep things respectful and I would never be dismissive of her feelings even if I don't agree with them. I hate to feel like her aunties uncles etc are all feeling sorry for him judging her when they don't know the whole story and what she has gone through to push her to saying what she said.

OP posts:
BruFord · 09/02/2024 14:02

Yet his siblings know that he has a difficult relationship with their mother, partly due to the horrible things he’s said to her?

Is it a situation where everyone underplays his nasty comments, because “that’s just what X is like,” so he’s always got away with it?

My Dad’s family was abit like that so people got away with a lot of nastiness.

Original poster
Lilifer · 09/02/2024 14:10

BruFord · 09/02/2024 14:02

Yet his siblings know that he has a difficult relationship with their mother, partly due to the horrible things he’s said to her?

Is it a situation where everyone underplays his nasty comments, because “that’s just what X is like,” so he’s always got away with it?

My Dad’s family was abit like that so people got away with a lot of nastiness.

Yes that is pretty much it. His siblings and sisters in law just kind of roll their eyes and sigh as it's just accepted that he can be caustic and sharp with (always) the women in his life.

He's a good person underneath it all but an absolute prick to deal with if you challenge him or assert yourself.

OP posts:
Original poster
Lilifer · 09/02/2024 14:11

I am gonna advise DD to get some counselling as I did years ago and it really helped me to set my own boundaries and actually was the thing that helped me to realise i needed to leave my marriage.

OP posts:
BruFord · 09/02/2024 14:13

I thought so. Well, it’s coming back to bite him now with your DD.

If you’re friendly with his siblings and they mention the argument, you could casually say that he spoke to your DD in the sharp way he does to his Mum and she wouldn’t have it-because it’s rude and disrespectful.

Duckingella · 09/02/2024 14:23

He blatantly is a misogynist who has zero respect for women and extremely low emotional intelligence who's shitty behaviour has been normalised by members of his family.

Was his own father like it?

Just because someone is your parent doesn't mean you have to have a relationship with them if they cause you grief and trauma;I am for the sake of my own mental health very low contact with my own parents.

I don't see why your daughter would want to maintain a relationship with someone who treats her badly.

Original poster
Lilifer · 09/02/2024 14:37

BruFord · 09/02/2024 14:13

I thought so. Well, it’s coming back to bite him now with your DD.

If you’re friendly with his siblings and they mention the argument, you could casually say that he spoke to your DD in the sharp way he does to his Mum and she wouldn’t have it-because it’s rude and disrespectful.

Yes unfortunately it is. I had hoped that things would be different with his Dds, but it seems that like he is going to repeat the same mistakes or patterns of behaviour that he has done in the past with me, his mother and other female relatives or friends. He never treats blokes like this, always only women.

OP posts:
Original poster
Lilifer · 09/02/2024 14:40

Duckingella · 09/02/2024 14:23

He blatantly is a misogynist who has zero respect for women and extremely low emotional intelligence who's shitty behaviour has been normalised by members of his family.

Was his own father like it?

Just because someone is your parent doesn't mean you have to have a relationship with them if they cause you grief and trauma;I am for the sake of my own mental health very low contact with my own parents.

I don't see why your daughter would want to maintain a relationship with someone who treats her badly.

Yes his father is the same. Perfectly lovely and a generous man but I have seen him put his wife down in front of me and the kids, with horribly caustic and sharp put downs. Mind you my FIL never really did that to me but I've seen him be like that with other women. I get on well with both my PILS but that's an aspect of FIL I don't like.

OP posts:
Original poster
Lilifer · 09/02/2024 14:42

@Duckingella she loves her dad and he loves her, he's just got a lot of issues and unlike the other kids who just accept stuff my DD challenges it. It would be good if they could have a relationship but only if she can learn to keep strong boundaries in place which is where the counselling might help.

OP posts:
Original poster
Lilifer · 09/02/2024 15:50

He will also ultimately blame me for any damage to relationship with DD as will link it all to the break up of the family 5 years ago 😔

OP posts:
Daleksatemyshed · 09/02/2024 18:26

I said it on another post earlier today - you reap what you sow. Your Ex obviously has a real problem with women and his own DD won't tolerate it, good for her, she's seen how he treated you and won't put up with it. Too many people get away with behaving like arseholes because everyone's content to gloss over it, you should be proud you've brought up a DD who knows her own worth

Gymnopedie · 09/02/2024 18:48

It would be good if they could have a relationship but only if she can learn to keep strong boundaries in place which is where the counselling might help.

I think you need to stop trying to dictate how DD responds to him. She is entitled to have the relationship with him that she wants on her terms. She doesn't take his shit - good for her. It also indicates that she won't take it from any other man either.

Nor do I think she needs counselling. She knows her own mind. By talking about counselling you're suggesting she needs to change something - behaviour, attitude, boundaries. Effectively telling her she's wrong. Why not accept that she deals with this very efficiently in her own way, and just because you have some romanticised view of a good relationship between them recognise that's your view not hers. She's standing up for herself, for you and for her grandmother. If it's not upsetting her why should it upset you?

Lonecatwithkitten · 10/02/2024 06:55

My 20 year old DD has a similarly tricky relationship with my ExH complicated by the fact that he had an affair which she discovered through his actions.
I listen and support her and remind her that anything is her decision, but I will support her whatever she decides.
I accept that he may believe that I am responsible for the state of their relationship just like he believes I am responsible for his affair, but I know that both those things are his responsability alone. Counselling for me got me to this stage.

goingrouge · 10/02/2024 07:35

Gymnopedie · 09/02/2024 18:48

It would be good if they could have a relationship but only if she can learn to keep strong boundaries in place which is where the counselling might help.

I think you need to stop trying to dictate how DD responds to him. She is entitled to have the relationship with him that she wants on her terms. She doesn't take his shit - good for her. It also indicates that she won't take it from any other man either.

Nor do I think she needs counselling. She knows her own mind. By talking about counselling you're suggesting she needs to change something - behaviour, attitude, boundaries. Effectively telling her she's wrong. Why not accept that she deals with this very efficiently in her own way, and just because you have some romanticised view of a good relationship between them recognise that's your view not hers. She's standing up for herself, for you and for her grandmother. If it's not upsetting her why should it upset you?

Maybe the counselling could be to help her understand/accept/process her very difficult relationship with her dad. It doesn't have to be about her changing how she responds to him and I agree she shouldn't.

That doesn't mean it's not really hard to accept your relationship with your parent isn't as you'd like it to be.

Dancingontheedge · 10/02/2024 08:17

What an excellent young woman!
Has clear boundaries, is capable of explaining why she is upset when he crosses them, doesn’t instantly fall for the ‘Can we talk?’ nonsense when she’s not ready and understands that it’s a him problem, not her.
No one is too old to change, but she’s probably one of the few calling out his bullshit. Support her, she knows what she’s doing and she was protecting her sibling. A job that possibly wasn’t hers to do, but she stepped up.

allthemiddlechildrenoftheworld · 10/02/2024 09:37

@Lilifer I am on the other side of the majority here! I think your daughter is a very strong person and well done to her for calling out her father! he has got away with this kind of behaviour for years and he is needing a rude awakening! she does have boundaries in place but he keeps overstepping them! It isnt her who needs therapy, it is him!

jeaux90 · 10/02/2024 09:50

If he accuse you of breaking the family up again you can remind him that he did that with his behaviour and blatant misogyny.

Your DD sounds fab, clearly good boundaries. Yes maybe counselling might help but so might reading the book "why does he do that".

But please don't try and convince her to forgive him, these are her boundaries. And you should never enter counselling with someone who is abusive in any shape or form.

Original poster
Lilifer · 10/02/2024 11:38

Daleksatemyshed · 09/02/2024 18:26

I said it on another post earlier today - you reap what you sow. Your Ex obviously has a real problem with women and his own DD won't tolerate it, good for her, she's seen how he treated you and won't put up with it. Too many people get away with behaving like arseholes because everyone's content to gloss over it, you should be proud you've brought up a DD who knows her own worth

I am very proud of her, she is strong and kind and fiery, I wouldn't have it any other way. But I know that she also wants to have a relationship with her dad, she will be sad if she cannot have that, even if it's solely because of his behaviour 😣

OP posts:
Original poster
Lilifer · 10/02/2024 11:39

Gymnopedie · 09/02/2024 18:48

It would be good if they could have a relationship but only if she can learn to keep strong boundaries in place which is where the counselling might help.

I think you need to stop trying to dictate how DD responds to him. She is entitled to have the relationship with him that she wants on her terms. She doesn't take his shit - good for her. It also indicates that she won't take it from any other man either.

Nor do I think she needs counselling. She knows her own mind. By talking about counselling you're suggesting she needs to change something - behaviour, attitude, boundaries. Effectively telling her she's wrong. Why not accept that she deals with this very efficiently in her own way, and just because you have some romanticised view of a good relationship between them recognise that's your view not hers. She's standing up for herself, for you and for her grandmother. If it's not upsetting her why should it upset you?

You could well be right, I am possibly projecting my own stuff on to her. But counselling did help me deal with the impact of my ex's communication (or lack of) style and it might help her too, but it's up to her ultimately if she wants to do that or not.

OP posts:
Original poster
Lilifer · 10/02/2024 11:42

Lonecatwithkitten · 10/02/2024 06:55

My 20 year old DD has a similarly tricky relationship with my ExH complicated by the fact that he had an affair which she discovered through his actions.
I listen and support her and remind her that anything is her decision, but I will support her whatever she decides.
I accept that he may believe that I am responsible for the state of their relationship just like he believes I am responsible for his affair, but I know that both those things are his responsability alone. Counselling for me got me to this stage.

Thank you yes that's how I feel too. I will support her, and if she distances herself from him no doubt it will be my fault in his eyes.

OP posts:
Original poster
Lilifer · 10/02/2024 11:43

"Maybe the counselling could be to help her understand/accept/process her very difficult relationship with her dad. It doesn't have to be about her changing how she responds to him and I agree she shouldn't.

That doesn't mean it's not really hard to accept your relationship with your parent isn't as you'd like it to be."

@goingrouge that's exactly it! It's to help her to manage how she feels about it not to make her change what she is doing!

OP posts:
Original poster
Lilifer · 10/02/2024 11:44

Dancingontheedge · 10/02/2024 08:17

What an excellent young woman!
Has clear boundaries, is capable of explaining why she is upset when he crosses them, doesn’t instantly fall for the ‘Can we talk?’ nonsense when she’s not ready and understands that it’s a him problem, not her.
No one is too old to change, but she’s probably one of the few calling out his bullshit. Support her, she knows what she’s doing and she was protecting her sibling. A job that possibly wasn’t hers to do, but she stepped up.

Thank you 🙏 ☺️ I am so proud of her.

OP posts:
Original poster
Lilifer · 10/02/2024 11:45

allthemiddlechildrenoftheworld · 10/02/2024 09:37

@Lilifer I am on the other side of the majority here! I think your daughter is a very strong person and well done to her for calling out her father! he has got away with this kind of behaviour for years and he is needing a rude awakening! she does have boundaries in place but he keeps overstepping them! It isnt her who needs therapy, it is him!

Edited

I agree but he will never go to counselling, he briefly went to it with me when we were separating and it did not go well. He resented being there. 😔

OP posts: