Sentence too lenient?

[NamelessNancy]

Apologies if I've missed another thread on this but I couldn't see one.

A man found to be responsible for the death of his partner has been given a two year suspended sentence. He left her in a bath full of scalding water for ten minutes despite her pleas for help. He then left her on a bed with the third degree burns she sustained over 30% of her body for six hours. Again, he did not seek any help for her even when she said she thought she was going to die. Apparently with prompt help she may have been saved.

Anyone else wonder what the sentencing judge was thinking ?

Link here (if I can make it work!)Guardian article about the case

Custodial sentences for drink driving resulting in someone dying are pretty common.

It is when it's as a result of an alcohol addiction which is of a level where it is recognised as a disorder.

That is a different offence to drink driving.

'Drink driving' and 'causing death by careless driving' (which is what it would be if you're drunk) are two separate offences.

We've covered this already in the thread.

It looks more to me like B or the higher end of C, on the basis of these factors that put killings into category B:

• The offender continued or repeated the negligent conduct in the face of the obvious suffering caused to the deceased by that conduct

• The offence was particularly serious because the offender showed a blatant disregard for a very high risk of death resulting from the negligent conduct

Should have been manslaughter at the very least 😕

It was... "Gross negligence manslaughter".

The clue is in the name.

Based on the level of sentencing, the court / judge almost certainly put him into category D.

No I don't think it's too lenient. The prosecution even agreed that it was a low culpability and at no point pushed for higher. They've also presented mitigating circumstances of his alcohol addiction themselves.

The jury acquitted him of manslaughter and found him guilty of gross negligence manslaughter due to the evidence presented in court, most of which is referenced in the sentencing remarks.

There was no suggestion he was abusive to her. There was no history of aggression, and many testimonies, including from her family, about how well he cared for her. She regularly wet herself and was sick on herself, which is what had happened that morning and why he put her into a bath.

The benefit of the doubt thing is a legal position and a judge is required to adopt it in favour of the defendant when a point can not be proven beyond doubt. So the temperature of the bath water for example would be one of those points. It was also known that she was suffering from alcoholic ketoacidosis as a result of a severe alcohol dependency and he from alcoholic dependence syndrome. They were drinking wine in the morning and he was seen stumbling into walls at noon.

It's very sad, and testament to how devastating addiction can be.

Thanks @MartinsSpareCalculator.

Might you have a link to the sentencing remarks? I've been unable to find them I'm afraid!

Apologies, now found them I think!

@10ThousandSpoons

How can they possibly know that?

Unless he was adding kettles of boiling water, how (in the U.K. at least) can the bath have been 80° - more like the (max) 50° (judge said probably 50° possibly up to 82°. Not that it matters that much as either would be intensely painful.

I wonder why she was unable to let the water out? I mean I know she was allegedly very very drunk, but?!)

it's all too bizarre & clearly we only have a fraction of the available information, but taken on face value, a 2 year suspended sentence is utterly fucking pathetic.

he allegedly checked on her several times, so he wasn't comatose himself. Being too embarassed to let anyone see her in that state so he allowed her to die instead?? He needs locking up for life either prison or secure MH facility. Not 'engaging with services' and being free to make other 'decisions affecting others lives.

the judge seems to need MH assessment as well. He seems to have taken on board A LOT of lies.

i would think he forced her into that bath. No matter how drunk you are, if you put your foot into water 50° plus, your natural instinct would have you pulling it straight out, not getting in, unless you were forced, surely????

poor bloody woman🥲

@Flickersy
@MartinsSpareCalculator

ive just read your recent posts, maybe I'm very wrong then, do either of you have the link to the sentencing remarks I'd really appreciate it.

Of course - they are here: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/R-v-Clowes-manslaughter-sentencing-remarks-02-02-24-Calver-J.pdf

It's horrendous.

He was heard by a neighbour accusing her of being unfaithful.

He initially refused to help her out of the bath that he'd put her in.

When he did help her out of the bath, he left her on the bed, despite seeing that her skin was peeling off, and ignored her distress, her calling for help and saying she was dying for hours before calling for help.

And the judge minimised her suffering - "The level of Clare’s suffering was minimised by the Judge referring to an expert report that the effects of her intoxication when put into the bath may have impacted on her sense of pain, ruling that significant physical suffering “is not established on the facts” of the case."

i would think he forced her into that bath. No matter how drunk you are, if you put your foot into water 50° plus, your natural instinct would have you pulling it straight out, not getting in, unless you were forced, surely????

Maybe not necessarily.

Not that I'm a medical expert, but it reminds me of Whitney Houston's death.

I watched a documentary about her death, and in her circumstances it was drugs, rather than alcohol.
The coroner explained that she had taken quite a lot of drugs, I think cocaine.

She ran a bath, that was far too hot. Because of the drugs, her natural instinct to jump out/pull straight out, did not kick in.
Unfortunately, instead she stayed in. Her body went into shock and she collapsed/fainted and fell head first into the water and died of drowning.

I know it's different circumstances, and maybe someone with expertise can advise, but I suspect the effects of alcohol/drug addiction may impact natural instincts.

I agree, poor woman.

She was insensible and had soiled herself, she was not merely tipsy. It is not therefore beyond the realms of possibility that her sense of pain was impaired. Therefore the aggravating factor of causing suffering cannot be proven by the facts of the case.

It is not minimising to analyse whether or not something meets a legal test.

She ran a bath, that was far too hot. Because of the drugs, her natural instinct to jump out/pull straight out, did not kick in.

He ran the bath.

The reality is that if you're a working class woman with addiction problems, the courts will not consider you any great loss and that will be reflected in sentencing imo.

This country's justice system is a laughing stock

She wasn't unconscious or unaware that there was a problem though, even if the physical pain was somewhat, or largely, numbed by the alcohol. She definitely seemed aware from the evidence that she was injured and in need of help.

@EilonwyWithRedGoldHair

i agree

Another thing, of many, HE must have told them what she said, including that she knew/felt she was dying. To me that says he knew he should get help & she wasn't totally unaware of what was going on. Which means it's unlikely that she wasn't in great pain.

so far, I'm not happy with this judge. I know we don't have all the facts, but some of these things I just can't get past.

i hope he has to fully explain himself.

He has, in detail in the sentencing remarks.

@minou123

interesting about WH Such a shame though.

Yes, I suppose she could have been too drunk & had supposedly had drugs as well, so who knows.

He still ran the bath for her, that hot, then left her there & on the bed etc.

He seems like a PoS that I wouldn't cry over if someone did the same to him.

@Flickersy

He has, in detail in the sentencing remarks

Could you possibly please post the link.

I saw him interviewed in the street after his sentencing. He’s an awful man, and should have received an actual custodial sentence.