I was ripped off - but am i out of touch with morality?

[CornwallThrift]

I was so chuffed when i bought a brand new integrated multifunction microwave oven for £150 from a lady in Plymouth through FB marketplace (half new price). She had bought it as part of a new kitchen but didn't need it. My kitchen extension was substantially delayed & it was 6 months before my electrician was able to fit said oven. All of the digital controls etc worked perfectly, BUT it didn't microwave or heat up. Over Christmas this provided a brilliant distraction for visiting family and friends, who studied the manual, determined to find the button to make it work ...which they never did. My electrician upon recent visit had a peek inside & said it was not wired up & there were substantial parts missing in order that it was to work as an oven or microwave. He suspected it was a 'show' oven. I contacted the lady & asked for my money back (in return for me delivering item in same condition i purchased it). She refused & said that no shop would give money back after 6 months. I said this is irrelevant as no shop would sell an oven that didn't have the capability to heat. She immediately exited the 'chat'. I just wouldn't be able to sleep at night if i had ripped someone off like this (regardless of whether i knew or not?). Is it unreasonable to expect my money back?

You're certainly not unreasonable, but you might be unrealistic. Unfortunately, it's the risk of buying second hand from a private seller and not a proper business. It's cheaper but you don't have the protections you'd otherwise have, difficulties of small claims courts aside (that's my understanding anyway; happy to be corrected by a legal expert).

I just wouldn't buy anything truly significant from a private seller like that. A legitimate, professional used goods shop is a safer option.

You really shouldn’t try to give pseudo legal advice when you are obviously untrained.

‘Beyond reasonable doubt’ applies to criminal law only and the test in civil law is ‘on the balance of probabilities’.

The OP won’t get anywhere via the courts because her evidence for being deliberately misled is flimsy at best. For instance, the seller could argue that the item in dispute is not the same item that she originally sold to her.

The OP was naive at best in not ensuring that the item was fully functioning before she purchased it from a random person on FB marketplace. 🤷🏻‍♀️

You have very few rights buying from a private seller, and after 6 months they could claim it isn't even same microwave.

I'd put it down to experience

She genuinely may not have known . If I bought an ex show room kitchen I would not have known about demo appliances. But even if she did you have to prove she knew. You could go through small claims court but not sure you will get anywhere .

There is no way of knowing whether she deliberately sold a non functioning item or not. I certainly didn’t know that show home items didn’t work, I assumed they did because somebody always buys the show home in the end.

But it has been six months and it was a private sale, it was sold as seen, it was for you to check it and if you couldn’t check it then you should have walked away.

I feel like with places like FB marketplace, you have to be willing to lose the money you pay for the item. It's been 50/50 for me - I've had some amazing bargains but also picked up kids toys that on closer inspection once home were so full of mould they ended up straight in the bin.

Second hand electricals it's always a risk hanging onto them before using them for so long too. With a forum like eBay you are more likely to be able to make a claim against the seller but even after 6 months you'd struggle to prove that it was done intentionally or at no fault of your own.

I wouldn't buy anything on Marketplace that I hadn't tested beforehand. We have sold games consoles on Facebook, but fully expected the buyer to want to test it and had it all set up for them to do so. Unfortunately I doubt anything can be done after 6 months. She must have known, surely, if it was bought as part of a new kitchen. No company sells ovens with parts missing.

She knew, I bet. Lesson learned for you. It's a shitty thing to do. I never go on Facebook Marketplace. Too many scammers and timewasters. Sorry this happened to you.

We had the opposite, sold an electric steam mop on FB only for the gentleman to message and say it didn't work. I hadn't shown it working to him on purchase so agreed he could return it as I felt it was fair to act in good faith.

He brought it back with a filthy pad on, splashes of dirt all up it. Had clearly been used overnight somewhere very dirty. But he turned up with a car load of family members who sat with the windows down staring at me and being alone in the house I didn't dare say anything. So basically he had a free mop hire for 24 hours! And I had to dispose of it as didn't feel in all good consciousness I could sell it on without thoroughly cleaning it and as I had no idea what it had been used to clean it wasn't worth it for £40.

I would try to reframe it that perhaps your seller was genuine op, you will never know. After 6 months if someone contacted me I would block them and refuse a refund. Better to try and think they were genuine and try to put it behind you.

I wouldn't buy anything electrical from an unofficial private seller....I'd want reassurance that it had been fully safety tested.

It sucks and you have my sympathy but I think you'll need to chalk this one up to experience. I think it can be easy to forget sometimes that FB Marketplace, Vinted etc are basically jumble sales. You can get some gems but you need to be careful about what you're prepared to lose and what protections it's worth paying to have.

One of the things I dislike most about Mumsnet is posters who say "she definitely knew" about a case like this, when we have no idea if she knew or not.

Maybe she knew. Maybe she didn't.

Everyone is not evil and scheming.

Buyer beware. You're not going to get your money back. Especially after 6 months.

I'm grasping at straws...I wonder if perhaps she bought a show kitchen and didn't know that it was a 'show microwave'.

I think if you had contacted her much sooner the outcome may have been very different. From her point of view, assuming she is a victim too, it does look suspicious your going back to her after so much time has elapsed. I feel as it was a private sale you are probably going to be left out of pocket whatever you do. I would chalk it up to experience and move on. Sorry you have had a bad experience.

I know it's victim blaming but it's really foolish to pay deposits for things being sold on Facebook marketplace.
It's tricky sometimes because I can understand why some sellers would like a deposit to show that the buyer is serious but it's never worth doing.

We've definitely learned our lesson. In future we won't be buying appliances off eBay!

I got a full refund on a faulty oven almost 8 months after buying it and having used it daily until it packed up, despite not having purchased any extended warranty. Consumer laws offer excellent protection for faulty goods and my refund was given by the retailer - not the manufacturer. However, Facebook Marketplace offers no such consumer protection and I doubt many sellers would give a refund after even a day - some might but it's very much 'buyer beware' in the case of FB Marketplace, I feel!

We had same - bought goods from home expo display and ended up missing parts when we installed months later. New goods usually have a year warranty - so Bosch did fix them.
if a new kitchen in theory she would have had warranty 12 months warranty she should have passed on to you
you are being given a hard time but not unusual for people doing kitchen renovations not to install parts asap

You are not out of touch with morality
There have been fraudsters and scammers throughout history. FB is just a recent tool!

If she had not had it wired in, she may genuinely have not known.

If i was you, I would ask her for the receipt if she still has it, and go to the manufacturers

When you buy something electrical on Facebook, you test it before you pay. Why didn’t you? All you had to do was put a plug on? Do you not know how to wire a plug? I was taught to do that in Brownies, there was a badge for it. Still know how.

This reminds me of my hairdresser throwing away very expensive straighteners because one of the pins fell out of the plug. Broken plug so she chucked them. I asked why she hadn’t just rewired with a new plug and she looked at me like I’d presented her with the holy grail; no idea it was something she could do.

How do women not know these things anymore?

@MixingPlaydough

That’s not true if you buy from a shop. You don’t need to buy an extended warranty. They want you to and they’ll initially say no if you don’t have one, but consumer law already covers it. An item should last a reasonable about of time. If you buy a £2 calculator and it breaks after 6 months, you won’t get a refund coz you’ve bought something cheap which isn’t expected to last. You buy an oven, which are expected to last years with daily use, and it breaks after 6 months then consumer law already covers you without a warranty and you are legally entitled to a repair/replacement or refund.

Had you realised straight away, but 6 months down the line I’d far too late to ask.

Well then she probably knew unless she bought it second hand and then that seller probably knew. No-one is assuming she's evil (she didn't try to kill anyone) but it's fair enough* to be cynical as her 'story' has holes in it. She bought a brand new item with vital parts missing? Why hasn't she offered to pass on the warranty to OP? She bought a new large appliance and then decided she didn't need it? Why didn't she return it immediately and replace? She told OP it was working. Not to mention FB Marketplace has a bad reputation for scammers. Not everyone is scheming* but there are a fair few who are and you have to be careful. In fact I would say it is better to be cautious and assume the worst when dealing with individuals and money. Assuming the best in people (in this type of situation) may make you gullible - as OP has found out and is now out of pocket.

The British Heart Foundation charity shops check everything electrical and I think they give 12 months cover (and the money goes to a good cause).

Not the point of the thread, but lots of posters are saying beware of Ebay, FBM, etc.

6 months?! You're being a CF.

If you'd bought it, tested it and then asked for a refund then I'd say YANBU at all, but after 6 months if I were the seller (who may not have known it didn't work) I'd assume you'd broken it and were taking the piss. That's far more likely than only just realising after 6 months.