Cancer inequality - Charles

[notknowledgeable]

Obviously I know life is unfair, but even so I am stunned. Treatment starts the same week he is diagnosed? Most of us have to wait 2-4 months. And I don't expect he will be directed to food banks when the DWP repeatedly stuffs up his ESA claim either

Mum was diagnosed on a Thursday and had an operation to remove the cancer on a Tuesday. Luckily it wasn't invasive and she was well on the mend after a few days. The NHS does move pretty fast sometimes.

I agree. It's such an outdated concept. The link between the Royal family and parliament is awful. I'm not a fan of a lot of politicians but at least they are elected. Unfortunately too many are too keen to secure themselves honours to not try and suck up to the royal family. It was under Sir John Major government that The Queen managed to have a law made that means the Royal Family doesn't have to pay inheritance tax. A law that benefits no one except them. This highlights how self serving the Royal,family are.

John Major was knighted after this event.

The Queen also exempted herself from other laws including many environmental laws, health and safety laws and, shockingly she was except from the Equality Act 2010. My bet is that Charles won't do anything about this and will happily carry on in the same self serving way.

Guardian article here

INFO HERE

"On the side of environmental law, she is exempt from laws prohibiting crimes from wildlife offences to environmental pollution. Notably, she is the only private landowner to be afforded these exemptions under law. In addition, The Queen’s rateable value for deer stalking is lower than many pubs, shops, and restaurants in the area. In the end, this means local businesses have to pay higher business rates.
A Guardian investigation in 2021 found Her Majesty is exempt from the 2010 Equality Act. This means employees of Her Majesty cannot file legal complaints claiming they have been discriminated against based on their sex, race, or equal pay. The Queen is also exempt from the 1974 Health and Safety at Work Act. The act that states employers must protect the welfare, health, and safety of all of their employees as well as others on the property, including visitors, clients, and casual workers"

I also don't see why discussions shouldn't be had about the disparities in diagnosis and care of cancer as they are brought into focus by Charles's news.

If 50% of the population are statistically likely to get cancer at some point perhaps doctors faced with possible cancer symptoms could behave as though there is a 50 / 50 chance it could be and perhaps eliminate that possibility first before dismissing them?

I'm sure most will say I've been unlucky, but my roll call is this:

Step father repeatedly reporting digestive issues in his 70s. Repeatedly treated for indigestion / constipation. Went to GP with shoulder pain. Turned out to be referred pain from liver cancer secondary to bowel cancer, which had killed his father. Palliative care was good, but he was dead within 6 months.

Mum - went to the doctor in her 70s with again digestive issues and other symptoms. Had to dick around with the Fodmap diet for nearly two years. When the fatigue got severe the GP offered HRT. The blood test for that showed up the cancer markers. Stage 4 ovarian. Or omentum. Or peritoneal. Too late to really tell. Chemo bought her three years and also destroyed her quality of life. Nursed her through her last month at my home in early first lockdown. Aside from the district nurses who drained her ascites every other day (and trained me to do it in case of emergency) all other support dried up entirely.

My Dad - splenic lymphoma. Rare but still. Not properly addressed until his spleen was so large removal was the only option. His care has been mostly good since then, however his status as "interesting case study" and nuclear test veteran may have something to do with that.

Close family friend - bladder cancer. Treated for anxiety and depression until she was finally diagnosed. Terminal.

And don't get me started on the overall shambles that is general elder care which I'm elbow deep in at the moment with both my Dad 84 (physical oroblems) and my SM 82 (currently in hospital with delirium on top of multiple mental health issues with us being treated like mushrooms for three weeks and being treated quite dismissively as we try and advocate for her).

If you're going to tell me I've just been unlucky, I will give you serious side eye.

@WeCouldLooseThis start your own thread then. It's derailing to this one which is nothing about whether a monarchy is needed or an 'outdated concept'.

@MistressoftheDarkSide
Did your stepfather take part in the FiT screenings for bowel cancer? The age requirement for the regular FIT screenings is down to 55 in parts of the country. If you look at Bowel Cancer UK forum, many of the new cases of bowel cancer are picked up through this. Early diagnosis is the key to curing bowel cancer.
So many people who complain about their treatment don't bother with the screening programme.

Many GP surgeries offer an annual blood test for cancer tumour markers to the over seventies. So many patients ignore these screening opportunities. I don't want to derail the thread. I hope the Royal Family take part in these national screening programmes.

@Thesquaddogs

Was it available or widely publicised in the late 90s?

Also - screening programmes are great if you know about them, can access them etc.

Way to go with victim blaming of the elderly. "Many GPs" isn't "All GPs".

What's the solution though? There has to be a level of self responsibility rather than expecting people to knock on the door to do the screening and then to Swan off. For those unable to manage their health and appointments etc you'd hope they have support; for those that don't which is sadly a lot then there are much bigger issues at play. The bowel screen is sent through the post and can be posted back, I wonder if uptake of that is better than those conducted at the GPs?

Private health insurance comes with policy limits and the insurers have to agree to the treatment and the bills.

Even if you go privately, you won't get "the money no object" treatment that is available to the RF unless you are seriously rich and can top up thousands or hundreds of thousands from your own pocket. Cutting edge experimental drugs are usually not covered. There's a go fund me for some TV personality who wants a certain procedure that is £50K a go. He needs at least 3.

My cancer treatment started within 2 weeks of diagnosis, no complaints from me. Private health care would not have been much quicker and I would have had the same surgeon anyway.

Private health insurance will only cover for a limited amount of treatments then the cover runs out and people transfer across to NHS treatment (often under the same oncologist).
Their treatment will be exactly the same - but the sheer numbers of other patients means they will have to wait to be called and will not be happy

That’s not strictly speaking true. Most private cover will cover all cancer treatments and follow up it’s only the most basic policies which might not. The treatment isn’t always the same. Privately the oncologists can offer a significant number of effective treatments which are standard of care across the world but not covered by NHS for cost reasons. They’ll often treat more aggressively too. They can often also use drugs off label if there’s sufficient evidence of effectiveness and they can provide evidence to the insurance company.

No many policies are not limited for cancer and will cover drugs you mention, I saw so many people find raising for treatments my husband was being offered as first line treatments.

Colleagues of mine have found it quite scary moving across to the private sector at how aggressively some treatments are used.
And it is the current government and not the NHS which restricts treatment by underfunding overall so budgets get limited and therefore only cost effective treatments can be used

It's not just Kc, treatment at any private clinic is faster than than public system. Unfair of course but hardly news.

Having said that recently I was seen within two weeks for a suspicious lump recently and had is aspirated and biopsied on the same day. I was incredibly impressed with my public treatment

Yip
My dads urologist told me that he he biopsied 100 80 year olds prostrate . 85 of them would show cancer cells but that it is such a slow growing cancer that something else would normally kill them long before the prostrate cancer did. He wouldn't biopsy as he said a) it's a horrible procedure with potential awful side effects and b) for lots of me there is significant impact of hearing the word 'cancer' at all regardless of prognosis.

So in your dads case an enlarged prostrate would not be unusual depending on his age and if there is something on his lung, it's more likely to have been as a result of his first cancer than his prostate

And that’s unfair but the fact is that unless you have a common non stage 4 cancer you’ll get different and probably better treatment privately. An early stage breast / bowel / prostate cancer, yes treatment is likely the same but as soon as you add in anything advanced or less common you’re going to have a better chance of a longer life in fair health privately. Why do you think that Deborah James, bowel babe, had her stage 4 cancer managed for so long? She was a private patient at the Royal Marsden presumably with a stellar health insurance. No way would she have had half the procedures she had on the NHS

Why ? Why is it in poor taste when the fact that Charles has been diagnosed and started treatment within a couple of weeks perfectly illustrates that ordinary people are waiting longer and longer for cancer treatments, and in many cases that wait impacts their chances of survival. That’s what’s shameful.

GP’s make a referral on the two week pathway if they suspect cancer. Not sure what the guidance is on the timeline of any subsequent appointment because my mum was referred on this pathway and actually waited six weeks for an appointment. It was then a further few weeks awaiting test results and another wait for treatment to start - overall it was around the three month mark from diagnosis to start of treatment.

My surgery was carried out within 3 days of my diagnosis and my active treatment was seamless after that.

If you had millions £££ in the bank, would you deny treatment the same week as others don't get that?

Or are you suggesting everyone with cancer should get same week diagnosis and treatment? What if it means your taxes double? Or should they take money from other ailments to enable cancer to be well treated?

It's VERY easy to simplify an issue but cancer rates and healthcare demands have increased massively. If you want better treatment the money needs to come from somewhere.

The best thing we can ALL do to improve healthcare for everyone is take steps to stay healthy. Stop accepting obesity as a society standard. Cook better. Move more. Drink less. Smoke less. Reduce the demand.

There are always restrictions of some sort - here is the BUPA "Cancer Promise" Plenty of limitations here.

• With Bupa full cancer cover, there are no limits on how long your treatment lasts or how much it costs, for as long as you have Bupa health cover.
• Some policies do have limits that you or your employer may have opted for. If you’ve opted to put a limit on your policy, we’ll cover costs up to that limit.
• You’ll need to use a hospital from the Bupa network.
• You’ll also need to see a fee-assured consultant. This is a consultant that we recognise and who charges within Bupa rates.
• Everyone’s policy is individual. You may not be covered for some conditions or treatments. Check your cover documents or speak to us if you’re not sure.

You don't have the right to see any consultant of your choice and the best may not be a "fee assured" one and the experimental and trial treatments may not be approved

Except we did, and we did have full cover. Aviva, including all central London hospitals, we saw exactly who we wanted, when and where we wanted. I now have vitality and it’s EXACTLY the same.

And for the most part you can navigate the system, travel and get what works best. Doesn’t always work but it’s a hell of a lot better than NHS. What my husband got privately was like a different world to what others with his rare condition were getting on the NHS from the support groups I was on