18 year old teachers?

[Creamcrackered10]

https://educationhub.blog.gov.uk/2024/02/04/teacher-degree-apprenticeships-how-they-work-and-when-to-apply/

The government has just launched its latest crackpot scheme to address teacher shortages. From 2025, they'll be inviting 18 year old into the classroom to earn whilst they learn. Nothing wrong with that in principal, but instead of gaining their degree first, they'll be in the classroom from day one. I know degrees have always existed at primary level that put 18 and 19 year olds in to the classroom but surely we want secondary teachers to be experts in their field, not just a couple of steps ahead of their students. Not to mention the issues that will arise from 16 year olds potentially being taught by teachers just a couple of years older than them, think inappropriate relationships, blurring of boundaries. Teachers up and down the country are struggling to assert their authority in the classroom, how do we expect 18 year olds to have the maturity, life experience or authority to manage a secondary school classroom? This whole scheme is going to be an enormous white elephant.

Degree apprenticeships that are already established eg nursing require experience of working as a hca ( usually minimum 2 years) or a level 5 qualification (18 year olds will not have this). With either route, the person starting the degree apprenticeship will be age 20 minimum. The link you have posted for the teaching degree apprenticeship states that further information on eligibility criteria will be released at a later date. I suspect it will be similar to the nursing requirement eg have worked in a TA role, have a level 5 qualification. So aged 20 at least.

I was 19 on a placement during my teaching degree for my first stint in secondary school. It's not a new thing, this has always existed in some form alongside the traditional PGCE route.

I'm 5'3". You can imagine how hilarious some of the situations were, in which I (19, tiny) was having a go at a 6' something lad for their behaviour, or lack thereof.

But a lot of it is down to maturity and personality - I had plenty of both at that point.

The biggest issue will be drop out rates.

Yeah same with the professions allied to medicine. I don't think it's ideal. I don't think they get a good grounding and most of them seem to drop out, but as we can't recruit, the govt are willing to give anything a go.

I can't edit anymore. But this was 20 years ago and I am still very successful as a teacher now.

I was 18 when I started nursing training and rotated around wards as part of the teams, gaining experience of different departments.

DD did her first teaching placement of 8 week at 19 with a year 4 class.

Another relative did the nursery nurse qualification between 16 and 18 and was a qualified nanny at 18.

As long as they are properly supervised, it isn't inherently a problem.

I don't think it'll be 18hrs olds at first, I think it'll be experienced school employees like pastoral staff or TAs finally able to do it without stopping working/earning.

Further down the line when they've all done it, might be younger students.

Indread of dealing with the fundamental reasons why people are leaving there are financial incentives and schemes like this. Sit teachers down with government. Ask why people want to leave then try and fix the issues

Can they not just place them teaching year 7 to 9? Like scout young leaders typically go into lower sections, not the scout section if they've just moved up.

Teaching year 7 to 9 is not any easier. Understanding how children learn, how to structure this into steps and how to manage and control a class is not easier just because they are a few years younger!!

The government do not want to sit down with educators. They're really not interested.

For several years, my school hosted people from the DFE who were "embedded" with us got a week.

They were universally pleasant people with no experience in state schools and no desire to work in the field.

They were always surprised by what we did and and what we had to deal with.

They listened politely and then went back to their real lives.

Things have only got worse.

Supervised and supported placements with a fully qualified teacher in the room as per teacher training placements? No different to current BEd degree which some start at 18 and finish at 22.

MrsHamlet, it ridiculous.

Teacher recruitment and retention is so poor (understandly) that hands are being forced I guess.
It won't solve the problem, it will make it worse.

My daughter will leave Uni with £60k debt competing for posts alongside these who will be cheaper to employ by the schools.

TAs are also now used to cover classes unsupervised.

Lots of 20 year olds used to be dropped into classrooms after a two year diploma. No TAs as support then, either. That continued until the 80s. I'd suggest an 18 year old now is comparable to a 20 year old then, and they'll be better supervised, as they'll be apprentices without QTS.

Secondary school teachers are rarely experts in their field. Most experts absolutely wouldn't wish to teach teenage children.

I think there's potentially a lot of merit in more of an apprenticeship route. Ultimately, the skill is in actually teaching, rather than what they specifically teach. The curriculum can be learned.

Why are they going to take on apprentices when they can get TAs to cover classes unsupervised for £10/11 p/h?

I'm sure I remember from his autobiography that Stephen Fry was teaching all sorts in prep schools at the age of about 17 or 18. No qualifications, just worked supply for any teachers who were off.

@Smashieandnicey TAs fill that role now.

It's not about just learning the curriculum. Whatever level you teach, you need to understand the next level too, so you can stretch and challenge students.

We don't have TAs in Scotland.

I think it's hard to tell how old someone is if they're 16-25 often. I remember at GCSEs we had a newly qualified English teacher who supposedly looked 18 and the boys all tried to flirt with her and it was an awful class anyway, she had no hope. She tried to get control doing a boy girl seating plan. I chose to leave the class at one point because I was being harassed and she apologised.

But I don't see 18 year old apprenticeship as a bad thing nessersarly, your main argument just sounds agist. Having some background it the subject is good, but surly an apprentice is working with a teacher...teach first has been going on for years, although that's degree level entry, when i left school in 2011, it was far to much university is the only path, it's good to move a bit away from that.

@Smashieandnicey We most definitely still do in England.

Absolutely! It's not easier to teach any younger age groups well - including 4 year olds! There's a huge difference between occupying/entertaining and creating a learning activity/lesson, assessing the progress made and creating the next learning episode based on the progress.

It makes me livid when people talk about primary teaching as though anyone could do it. Yes anyone could do it really badly but is that good enough? Of course it bloody isn't!