Safari parks in Britain,

[isitoknottohaveaname]

Is it ok to breed animals in zoos/safari parks, like lions,/pandas/ penguins etc which are now forced to live in vastly different environments that they've evolved to live in? Are we helping them survive extinction or are we keeping them here for our entrainment?

I really feel sorry for all those animals in zoos and safari parks. Born purely for humans to gawp at. I completely disagree that seeing an animal in person is needed to fuel a passion for conservation.

Of course it does. Lots of zoos are very successful at breeding certain animals, and these animals then go to other zoos to improve breeding populations across Europe. Some animals are easier to breed than others, of course.

What do you define as a horrible enclosure though?
Animals in Zoos and safari parks in the UK generally have a decent amount of space. Food readily available and world class veterinary care. They do not have a constant threat of predators either.
No they don't have the infinite amount of space they would in the wild but frankly they do have a much better standard of living than their wild cousins. And please note that most wild animals travel such vast areas for food and water not for pleasure.
Animals in zoos usually live significantly longer than their wild cousins

These days safari parks have areas where animals can go to be off show.

And so does Yorkshire Wildlife Park. They also rescue animals in captivity that are kept in horrific conditions.

https://www.yorkshirewildlifepark.com/lion-rescue-2/

I agree, this is the point I'm trying to make

Op just bw honest here if you are anti zoo . the majority of animals you see in zoos have been captive bred for generations. Good zoos act to preserve animals through breeding programmes like Durrell with pink pigeons, Madagascar pochard and lion tamarin or Chester with javan green magpie. Not all animals will go back to the wild but without zoos the california condor, Arabian oryx or per davids deer would have been lost. Would you rather they just went extinct due to your ignorance. Also remember animals don't think like us. A hippo in a zoo doesn't remember africa. But whatever anyone says I suspect you will just say I don't like zoos they are wrong. If that's what you believe fine. But don't say breeding in zoos doesn't work . That just not true.

@isitoknottohaveaname - So why can't we breed from them and send them on their way

Well, think about it. Why are some animate in trouble? Because their habitat is endangered - humans encroaching on it, rainforest being cut down, poachers.

So where would you release an elephant or rhino?

Honestly, op, if you really wanted to, you could Google this stuff and not just ask randoms on here.

Look at www.whipsnadezoo.org/conservation for some inspo!

Animals, not animate 🙄

OP, I completely get what you are saying.

What's the justification for the unnatural imprisonment of a few poor creatures?

A breeding programme for what? Reintroduction into a wild that doesn't support them naturally? Cos we've already fucked that up for them.

Our entertainment? Obviously not OK

Our education? These days we've got sophisticated ways of achieving that without torturing live animals.

Is it really OK to keep a species alive at the expense of the misery of an individual animal?

Depends on the zoo. They may be part of the various international breeding programs, and some of those will be returnees to the wild, or they might not be and they’ll be destined to forever spend their lives in captivity. But being part of the breeding programs doesn’t guarantee success or even competence if Knowsley and the experience with the Amur Tigeress is anything to go by. It’s true that The Aspinall Foundation breed to return to the wild (in fact their intention is to rewild as many animals as possible if they are in any way suitable) but honestly, unsure what the point is if the reason they’re endangered in their natural habitat is all down to human activities and that hasn’t changed. Half of the first group of gorillas from Howletts were killed once they were rewilded to Gabon, might have been humans or might have been that animals raised in captivity simply cannot survive in the wild. Or, like the Langurs (amongst many other animals there), they’ll be going back to an increasingly small, extensively managed, area in their native habitat - simply to keep them safe, but it’s hardly natural. Rewilding the elephant family to Kenya is constantly being rescheduled for various reasons and there isn’t any guarantee they’ll be safe once there. If the original habitats of these animals no longer exists or are now too dangerous for them to survive naturally, then what’s the point?
Yes, we’re keeping them alive for us, vanity conservation.

thistimelastweek so every animal in captivity lives in misery. Seriously.

I agree. I'm thinking about cows. They're only here so we can use them

It's living unnaturally.

It's just existing.

So what's the point?

The point has to be about us, not them.

Thank you so much for explaining. It's really helpful 😍

I’m not an expert, but when I go to Whipsnade zoo they seem to do really good work. Alot of great conservation work, including helping to save endangered species from extinction.

The animals seem to have a pretty good life there too - lots more space than in many other zoos because of the location

It’s a balancing act.
No one is going to a zoo to see a tiny obscure frog species that is on the brink of extinction.
People are going to the zoo to see the baby giraffe. The entrance fee and money they pay to see that baby giraffe funds vital programmes to save the frog and other endangered species.

They need the cute baby animals to draw in the customers to raise the money.

But do look at the Aspinall foundation and the huge impact they are having on reintroducing Gorillas.
Damian Aspinall’s slogan is ‘it’s too late to rewind but together we can rewild’

proachers are killing animals - still- are this naive

fish mammals birds etc people are trying /donate to wwf

I can't keep saying this. What is the point of saving animals from extinction if all it means is shoving them in a zoo to live a shit life in an enclosure

How do you know that their life is shit? The enclosures at Yorkshire Wildlife Park are huge. The animals are safe from predators, they get fed regularly and they get treated by a vet when they are ill.

I'm pretty sure an enclosure in a wildlife park is no substitute for the savannah

I do think there is an issue of using animals for entertainment generally (not just animals you would see in a zoo/safari park either). And also an issue with using animals for food but that's a separate debate.
I think that both zoos and safari parks do some good work too. Both in terms of conservation and around education of humans (both adults and children) about conservation, respect for the environment etc.
I will say I boycotted zoos for years having felt upset about the conditions some animals were kept in, but have been again since to zoos, Safari parks and other animal attractions (monkey world etc). I think the animals are generally well looked after, a lot of work goes into enrichment for them these days and a safari park seems infinitely better than a zoo in terms of space available, natural behaviours etc. In an ideal world we wouldn't need zoos and safari parks but I don't worry about it like I used to (more worried about what the climate emergency is going to mean for wildlife in many ways).

What makes you sure of that though?

A huge enclosure to roam in with enough food and medicine to live a long, healthy life & not having to worry about you or your offspring getting eaten/poached or not being able to find food or water doesn't sound awful.

Animals aren't humans and they don't dream wistfully of the savannah. I would imagine that a lot of them would choose the comfortable and safe zoo life over taking their chances in the wild if they could understand the decision.

a lot of work goes into enrichment for them these days and a safari park seems infinitely better than a zoo in terms of space available, natural behaviours etc

The very fact that zoo staff have to spend so much time on discovering new kinds of enrichment for their animals is indicative of just how unnatural the captive environment is. There are barely any natural behaviours if the truth be told - particularly when it comes to breeding.

I think that both zoos and safari parks do some good work too. Both in terms of conservation and around education of humans (both adults and children) about conservation, respect for the environment etc

Honestly, the number of people visiting who have any interest in either conservation or the environment is minimal. Much more likely to get ignorant people griping that they can’t see any of the animals because they’re all hiding in their cages - yeah it’s not set up for your convenience dickhead, it’s set up for theirs