To think student loan shouldn't be deducted from nmw

[HolidayBurden]

The threshold for plan 1 is so low now that from April 33 hours a week at minimum wage will trigger the deduction. Surely they should raise the threshold now? I can't see any information regarding this changing.
the oldest plan seems the worst for this.
It is distinctly possible I've missed information about future changes and will be very grateful to any knowledgeable posters with advice.

But unlike a tax, it's not something that's applied equally to everyone, that's the main problem.

Some people have to pay theirs back when they earn 22k, for others it's not until they're earning 27k.

Some pay 6.25% interest, some pay 7.6%.

Some have theirs written off after 25 years, some after 30 years, and others have to wait until they're 65.

I had a quick nosy on my payment schedule - the most I've ever paid back per month is £15 but my interest is £41 a month. Make it make sense!

ok, forget people whose parents pay for them, how about students (particularly mature) who fund themselves? I worked throughout my degree so didn't take my full maintenance loan and covered most of my costs myself. I also then worked for a few years to save for my masters rather than take a post graduate loan. Others on my course went straight from uni so took out a postgrad loan. Why should I subsidise them?

For a graduate tax to work it has to be a set percentage for everyone. Surely you can see that's not feasible? Everyone would just go to the most expensive place for the longest or most fun degree possible if they would be paying the same amount back for the rest of their working lives anyway. Why stay at home living with your parents to study bioscience in Lincoln when you can spend 3 years living it up in London doing english literature, 6 hours entirely optional contact time?

Why stay at home living with your parents to study bioscience in Lincoln when you can spend 3 years living it up in London doing english literature, 6 hours entirely optional contact time?

Because long-term, the former will give you a better life than the latter.

EDIT: To add, surely a graduate tax would only apply until you'd paid off what you owed anyway? Or are you saying all students should pay extra tax until they're 65?

Our young people are told that in order to meet the basic standard of living they are required to pay tax,
and national insurance,
and council tax,
and utilities,
and tv licence,
and a pension,
and food,
and travel costs,
and save for a house deposit or pay rent,
and also have additional savings,
and pay for prescription charges/dentistry costs,
and if they go on to have children, they need to pay for childcare,
and save for contributions towards uni fees for any of their children who may want to go to uni

Parents are advising their DC to aim for as higher paid salaried job as they can get, as this will make life easier. However, not only do you require a 1st or 2:1 degree to access higher paid salaried jobs but regular entry level salaried jobs, which did not require a degree are now asking for one, so not having a degree cuts off a significant portion of the job market. In order to obtain that degree most young people will require a tuition/maintenance loan.

And people are quibbling that our youth should just suck up being asked for another payment, which will last for 40 years! And that some of the degrees are not worth the money, as they do not lead to well paid graduate jobs but no one pointed it out to them at the time of choosing the degree.

Why are these degrees even on offer? Or maybe student loans should only be offered at one or two locations provided for these degrees?

I am fuming on their behalf. How has this been allowed to happen?

The degrees are on offer because a) universities see a demand for them and b) arts/humanities courses bring in a net profit to a uni (as opposed to STEM degrees which cause them a net loss due to equipment and staff to student ratios etc.). Universities are private institutions and can't be blamed for doing what's necessary to keep themselves financially afloat.

What is an issue though is children not being discouraged from applying to pointless degrees whilst at school. Some children are simply not academic, there should be other avenues made available to them so that they can progress in their careers without being saddled with debt for a completely useless degree. Other children make the mistake of just going for a course that interests them with absolutely no plan as to what they're going to do afterwards. I have to admit I did this too, however I rectified it with my masters and then chose a career that was lucrative (but I hated the first 3 years of) because I decided that I wanted a higher standard of living than what I would be able to attain if I 'followed my passions'.

There's an issue with the mentality that you just do what interests you and you're naturally good at and hope that financially things pan out. The PP who talked about having a TEFL qualification, PGCE, and English Creative Writing masters and earning 22k a year is a good example of this - creative writing has never been lucrative until you hit the jackpot with a book. These were all choices she made, but it's not a surprise that financially she's not comfortably off and saddled with student debt. I did a humanities undergraduate, saw that all the relevant jobs were poorly paid and switched direction - I do my passions as hobbies, not as my main career. It's a mindset.

factory workers shouldn’t be on NMW, the point is wages are too low - you missed the point.

work where you like but don’t decry everyone to poor wages

my relative worked in a factory back in 1981 earning £12,000 per annum & 40+ years later NMW isn’t double that figure. Surely you can see something is wrong?

Why are these degrees even on offer?

Universities are private institutions, not charities - if they know a course is going to be popular and make them money, of course they're going to to offer it.

But even if everyone does pick sensible degrees, there are only so many jobs out there. So...then what? Do you only pay back your loans if you're one of the "lucky ones" to get a graduate job in your specific field?

There's no easy solution, sadly. Whatever system you pick is going to penalise someone.

Universities are charities not (mostly) private institutions.

Yes, but not in the traditional sense of a charity - my point was that they still need to make money and pay their staff.

Private schools are also "charities" but they still offer what parents want for their kids, and charge good money for it. I don't see universities as any different.

Feel sorry for those who dropped out, for whatever reason. Student loan to repay, and may well be on NMW

Yes, but not in the traditional sense of a charity - my point was that they still need to make money and pay their staff.

Universities can't 'make' money - they're not allowed to make profits. All organisations need to pay staff - charities, schools, PLCs.

Universities also cannot charge what they want. Fees for home undergrads are capped.

Private schools have no such restrictions.

I didn't say anything about profits. By making money, I meant making what they need to cover staffing, electricity, resources, equipment, heating, security etc.

Yes, they can only charge a limited amount of money per person, but financially it makes more sense to offer a course that will appeal to 100 people rather than one which will appeal to 10.

No, because it doesn't apply to graduates who were born early enough to go for free or whose parents were able to pay the costs upfront for them.

As an aside, one thing that comes up during these discussions is the underlying devaluing of arts degrees. I agree there are some ridiculous degrees out there but there is benefit in living in a society where arts, humanities etc are valued and taught. I quite like the American system of having a major and minor subjects as it widens peoples knowledge and allows for the flexibility needed when young adults are choosing what to do with the rest of their life.

@CaribouCarafe seeing as you're referring to my career journey I'll respond! When I took my first UK teaching job fresh from my PGCE 8 years ago, 22K wasn't NMW. It was a good starting salary for an NQT outside of London. I hated the overcrowded classes and left for a TEFL job in a S Korean English immersion. The wage wasn't high, but in addition to salary I had a completely free apartment in Seoul with all utilities paid for, plus my flights. Then when I returned to the UK to raise my baby I career changed to copywriting for an educational publisher that's notorious for underpaying BUT offers excellent flexitime, is fully remote and is a good stepping stone for those of us career changing from teaching to writing. The MA will give me transferable skills to my dayjob, the best seller is a pipe dream.

@CaribouCarafe also, I don't regret any of my past or ongoing qualifications. They've given me the opportunity to positively impact the lives of hundreds of children over the years. Yes, its a shame I've never earned much, but I've had some truly incredible opportunities that wouldn't have been possible without my degree

@Hubblebubble definitely an interesting career trajectory, and to be fair I don't think you were one of the people unreasonably complaining about loan repayments, but I do know of people who went down a similar path and now shake their fists at the government for trying to recoup some of the loan.

If you're happy then that's all that counts!

I think my main gripe is with people who seem to abdicate all personal responsibility or think it's up to others to bail them out for poor decision making (and I'm not saying you're one of those people!).

But as I said, thank you for replying and sharing some additional context to the discussion

@OnlyTheBravest.. I agree and I can't understand where the extra money for tuition fees has gone?

Unfortunately it was Blair who introduced it all with modest 1 grand fees.
Look how it's spiralled out of control and our degree is being devalued by foreign students some of whom are getting onto courses with far less money.
Where is all this money going?

@LeroyJenkinssss

I agree on the major and minor.
My degree was modular and I could branch out which I found interesting.

The unis still make a massive loss per student. Two years ago it was quoted as 3k per student. That's why unis lived the eu students and from other countries but lack of them has caused huge issues.

@CaribouCarafe thank you for your kind words. No, I wasn't complaining about paying it back. I understood what I was agreeing to when I signed my first lot of student finance paperwork back at 18. My gripe was more that some people didn't understand that some professional jobs are very low paid and that when people career change sometimes that comes with a financial sacrifice.