To think 12 year olds 'mocking' isn't OK?

[TheArts]

Or is it normal?
Is it just a thing that 12 year olds are like?
I really have no idea.
To me, mocking is rude.
But am I out of touch?
12 yr old DS has a long standing friend who constantly mocks him. Says "Come on piss-stain" to DS. Snorts at DS if they're doing something that DS doesn't do as well as him. Whilst out together DS said "Let's go this way" and he replied Piss Off! But he greets DS with enormous enthusiasm whenever they meet up and at the start of their school days. DS was off school sick recently and when he returned this friend literally ran to him smiling, jumping up and down with excitement and hugging him saying "So awesome you're back!" and was lovely to DS. He calls for DS lots and they go out together and have a really great time, loads of fun. DS comes back beaming with what a brilliant time they've had together. This friend has done lots of actions to show support to DS, really touching and thoughtful things in many cases. But then he'll stand there and snort if DS isn't very good at doing something, and tell him to piss off and say "Come on piss-stain".
DS gets upset, but he's a very gentle, sensitive lad.
Is this normal 12 year old behaviour? Does DS just need to toughen up a bit?
Or is it weird behaviour, which is how I'm interpreting it to be?
Mind you, I'm hearing about and seeing for myself so much weird behaviour about his other friends too, I'm starting to think 12 must be a strange age! It's like all these previously lovely little boys I used to know through primary school have suddenly all changed into completely strange boys displaying very troubling behaviour. Is this normal?! Or does my DS just happen to have had extremely bad luck with his friends?

Sounds like he's picked up a bantz habit from somewhere. Mostly likely the internet. He sounds a good friend otherwise. If your son really can't handily it then you need to support him in expressing this to the lad.

You both need to watch Friday Night Dinners!

Yes it's normal - it's banter. He needs to banter back! Call him 'skidmark' or something. But be careful, banter can edge into bullying, esp if others who aren't friends start in the same vein. It sounds like his actions are positive towards your ds.

Mocking all depends on context and the nature of the relationship. If your son’s self esteem was being impacted by his friend’s behaviour then it would be an issue. If that is just what his friend is like and when it comes down to it he is a genuine and supportive friend, then it’s totally fine. I think we have to accept we don’t have the same humour as 12 year old boys…

I have to explain to my 9yo that there are things that are fine to say to his friends that aren’t okay to say to me, or that he would say to me that aren’t okay to say to his teachers etc. as context and the relationship is so important.

I had to sit my year 5s down this week and explain why roasting isn't kind. They see it online and think it's hilarious but it doesn't work well on the playground. It's the same with banter. People get upset and rightfully so.

But it's part of teen culture and I think here to stay. My daughters do it to each other Friday night dinner style but they're both equal participants.

a 'bantz habit'! 😂😆😆
That really is one of the silliest phrases I have every heard

12 year old boys taking the piss out of each other is totally normal if British and as lond as its not one sided. Girls not so much.

Very normal friends interaction.

It is a strange age. My DS and I have started having a bit of similar sounding banter and it doesnt sound too different from how i joke with my friends. Though I obviously don't mock him when he does something wrong. It's hard to tell without hearing what the other troubling behaviour you mentioned is but it does t sound particularly out of.the ordinary for teenagers. However if things are upsetting your DS and he doesn't enjoy this humour there's nothing wrong with encouraging him to put boundaries in place.

Exactly this. Banter back. But ultimately it has to come from a place friendship. You can only really banter with friends and people close to you due to the nature of it otherwise being offensive to outsiders. So its a back handed compliment and a sign of solidarity. But a careful balance needs to be had so it doesn't become offensive or bullying.
Sounds like your DS friend is ultimately a good friend

His friend sounds like a good friend and very typical of a 12 year old boy.
Kindly, I think you need to teach your son a bit more resilience to this kind of banter. Not cruelty obviously, but to know when something is playful ribbing. The ability to laugh at yourself is a key skill too. You can model all this at home.

Isn’t this “banter”?
I’m assuming that your son doesn’t have any nicknames that he uses for his friend and that you don’t have a jokey relationship with him.

Depends I suppose. If it's all one sided, then it's not banter. Banter is meant to be fun for both parties.

Or it could be your ds' friend having a cackhanded go at bantering, but your ds not being quite there yet and getting it. It's hard to tell without seeing the dynamics. Lots of kids do the 'it's only banter' thing, when actually, no it's not: you're being a twat.

It’s just how some kids speak to each other, approach it as a term of endearment.

He’s going to struggle in life if he gets upset by this. He could also say will you stop calling me that please as I don’t like it?

This is a good book about teen boy friendships. My DH said it’s pretty accurate Masterminds and Wingmen: Helping Our Boys Cope with Schoolyard Power, Locker-Room Tests, Girlfriends, and the New Rules of Boy World
Book by Rosalind Wiseman
I was shocked when I read it. DH said it was pretty spot on

I'd also say it's banter. There's a level that you can to go to within a secure relationship. But it does have to be accepted by both parties. If there are certain names that really upsets your DS he can ask for them not to be used. But it's going to be a thing between all the lads within two years.

Yep, my DS 11 and his mates do this all the time. Just in the middle of every day conversation, it does sound very strange, and I used to think they were arguing, but no, it's just how they converse!

As long as nobody's feelings are getting hurt, then it's absolutely fine. I know plenty of adults who interact this way too - it's just another way of having a laugh and communicating.

Is it? @quisensoucie

Really interesting reading your replies.
Thanks!
DS is my eldest so I haven't got any experience in all this.
I'm going to show him this thread!

I was just thinking the same when I read it the brothers calling each other pussface and pissface 😅

Have to be careful with banter.

There was a review done on peer on peer abuse in schools. The majority of girls questioned said they had experienced or knew friends who had experienced sexual harassment. Many boys when questioned about this behaviour called it banter.

We need to ensure we are not ignoring bullying/abusive behaviour by boys by just treating it as banter or boys will be boys (school safeguarding behaviour specifically refers to these terms).

I was appalled when I listened to my 15yo taking the mick out of his friends, but it seems accepted/expected. It's banter.

I've told ds if I ever catch him bullying anyone and making them miserable, he'll be grounded for a month, but have let it go for now. He's a kind hearted soul and I trust him.