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Original poster

To wonder why the hell my 2 year old is so vicious?!

28 replies

AngeloMysterioso · 02/02/2024 18:16

My two eldest DS’s are 4 and 2. Occasionally DS1 will pick on DS2 but for the most part DS2 is the instigator and it’s awful- he hits, bites and scratches his brother with no provocation at all. In the car he’ll be scratching at him, and because DS1 can’t move away this inevitably builds into them both screaming.

This evening on the way home from nursery he’d been scratching him in the car, and a few minutes after they got in he started hitting him on the back of the head with a toy for no reason at all.

He isn’t really talking yet beyond a few basic words- when he’s naughty like that we tell him off and sometimes put him on time out in the bedroom, and always explain afterwards what he was being told off for and why he shouldn’t do it, but it seems to have no effect at all.

We don’t know where he’s learnt this behaviour from or why he does it, or how to make him stop. Sometimes he can be so sweet it melts our hearts, and he’s absolutely lovely with his new baby brother- but such a little tyrant with DS1! What do we do?!

OP posts:
Outnumberedbywillies · 02/02/2024 18:26

No advice but same age gap with my boys and my 2 year old is like the spawn of satan! He's also incredibly vicious and will attack his brother completely unprovoked. He also finds it funny when he's told off. We do lots of positive reinforcement when he's being kind and just remove him from the situation and put him on time out and give his brother lots of attention when he hurts. Also sounds awful but we have told our eldest that sometimes he might just have to fight back. Hoping it's just a phase albeit one that seems to be overly long right now! He can be unbelievably loving when he wants to be, but just seems to enjoy being a holy terror! Thankfully he doesn't seem to do it with any other kids!

Original poster
AngeloMysterioso · 02/02/2024 19:16

I just don’t know what to do about it- it’s been going on for months and months now and nothing DH and I try seems to make any difference to his behaviour.

OP posts:
NalafromtheLionKing · 02/02/2024 19:20

If they’re stuck in a confined space where you can’t intervene as you’re driving, put the older one next to you in the front seat (and the younger one behind you). Maybe a fenced off toddler area (can’t remember official name) and ipad or similar to entertain him until he grows up a little and calms down.

The reason is probably because he is getting overtired and can’t really express what he wants/needs (and because a lot of 2 year olds are a*holes).

2031MummyTBC · 02/02/2024 19:24

Oh god, my boy is also vicious. He's most scratchy when in the pushchair. I haven't figured out how to manage this behaviour out of the house (or the playground where we can do a timeout).

No tips, but you're not alone!

TizerorFizz · 02/02/2024 19:25

Obviously put something between them in the car - you have three dc? All in the back of the car so put baby between them. If seat allows. Keep him away from his brother. Is he acting out due to baby? He’s not getting as much attention I assume. So just erect a barricade! Not easy but cannot think of much else but I don’t agree with brother fighting back. Two wrongs don’t produce a right. Eldest dc needs protection from his brother and you must provide it.

VivaVivaa · 02/02/2024 19:34

By 2 is he 23.5 months or 35.5 months or somewhere in between?

Original poster
AngeloMysterioso · 02/02/2024 19:38

They are sat apart in my car as I put DS3 in the infant carrier in the passenger seat so it isn’t an issue, but in DH’s car we have a multimac in the back with DS1 in the middle and the infant seat the other side of him- it’d be a 90 mile round trip to get the seats reconfigured to put DS3 in the middle, and my worry is that if DS2 decided to start hurting him he’d be completely defenceless.

OP posts:
Childminderwoes · 02/02/2024 19:41

NalafromtheLionKing · 02/02/2024 19:20

If they’re stuck in a confined space where you can’t intervene as you’re driving, put the older one next to you in the front seat (and the younger one behind you). Maybe a fenced off toddler area (can’t remember official name) and ipad or similar to entertain him until he grows up a little and calms down.

The reason is probably because he is getting overtired and can’t really express what he wants/needs (and because a lot of 2 year olds are a*holes).

I really really really really wouldn’t be giving a 2 year old an iPad, or any tablet, at all, for any reason.

Original poster
AngeloMysterioso · 02/02/2024 19:47

VivaVivaa · 02/02/2024 19:34

By 2 is he 23.5 months or 35.5 months or somewhere in between?

26 months

OP posts:
Original poster
AngeloMysterioso · 02/02/2024 19:51

Also this started long before DS3 arrived

OP posts:
VivaVivaa · 02/02/2024 19:57

AngeloMysterioso · 02/02/2024 19:47

26 months

Show quote history

When he’s naughty like that we tell him off and sometimes put him on time out in the bedroom, and always explain afterwards what he was being told off for and why he shouldn’t do it, but it seems to have no effect at all

This is far too complex for a just turned 2 yo. I think you just need to keep them separate as much as possible until he has better communication skills. If he does start getting violent, you physically separate them with a firm ‘No we do not hit/kick/scratch/whatever’ over and over again. Would eldest be happy to play in a play pen? That’s how we keep my eldest’s favourite toys away from soon to be crawling baby. Appreciate the car is hard. Snacks? Special toys that only come out in the car?

Childminderwoes · 02/02/2024 19:58

When you say he has a few words can I ask how many? What is his communication like overall? How does he make his needs known?

BurbageBrook · 02/02/2024 20:16

It sounds like you're disciplining him as if he weee 4 (not that it's necessarily the best strategy then either). Time out, discussions of behaviour etc will go way over the head of a 2 year old. They won't get why you're doing it or make the connection to their behaviour. I think keeping him and his brother as separate as possible and constantly supervising is the main thing. Plus explaining things in toddler friendly ways like saying no and then showing gentle hands etc. Probably the reason is straightforward sibling jealousy of and sibling rivalry with his older brother who is able to communicate better with his parents etc.

BurbageBrook · 02/02/2024 20:16

*as if he were

BurbageBrook · 02/02/2024 20:17

Also it is probably just a phase and lots of positive attention when he's being kind to his brother might help.

Original poster
AngeloMysterioso · 02/02/2024 20:24

We don’t go into long winded elaborate discussions or anything, we just say things like no biting, we don’t bite, kind hands etc etc.

We do our best to keep them apart- it doesn’t help that our home is tiny (we’re trying to move) and they always want to play with the same things

OP posts:
TizerorFizz · 02/02/2024 20:25

Confused about the car seats. Why a 90 mile round trip? You cannot put a child safely in the front and you need to be mindful of air bags. Can you not get a car with three full seat belts on the back seat as you have three children? Separate DC 1 and 2 by the baby.

I think a 2 year old is not understanding time out on his own. @VivaVivaa It’s the 2 year old who should be in the pen or cordoned off space. Slightly unfair to put the 4 year old in a playpen! Poor child.

MeinKraft · 02/02/2024 20:26

Have you tried reading Hands are not for Hitting/Teeth are not for Biting?

BertieBotts · 02/02/2024 20:35

I understand why you're saying viscious but I do think that's a harsh interpretation of a toddler's actions. They don't really understand at that age what they are doing beyond "this makes people leave me alone" - I would guess that what you're seeing is that he's feeling unsafe and lashing out as the only way to make what he's interpreting as danger go away. If the "unsafe" feeling is being triggered seemingly randomly, then my guess is some kind of sensory sensitivity.

With that and the frequency of it and the lack of language (even though his language doesn't sound delayed as such) and the fact he's not responding to time out - have you looked at M-CHAT at all? This is an autism screener for toddlers. It might not be anything like that but it's just a screener, so doesn't hurt to run through it and see what it says.

VivaVivaa · 02/02/2024 20:35

I think a 2 year old is not understanding time out on his own. @VivaVivaa It’s the 2 year old who should be in the pen or cordoned off space. Slightly unfair to put the 4 year old in a playpen! Poor child

My 3.5 yo loves it 🤷🏻‍♀️it’s his space with his things that we’ve made a little bit special. We’ve made a bit of a deal of it being his space that baby can’t crawl into. It’s not used as a punishment. Far easier and kinder for a child with understanding and communication skills to be kept safe in a play pen away from violent sibling instead of trying to keep a 2 yo penned in.

Original poster
AngeloMysterioso · 02/02/2024 20:52

TizerorFizz · 02/02/2024 20:25

Confused about the car seats. Why a 90 mile round trip? You cannot put a child safely in the front and you need to be mindful of air bags. Can you not get a car with three full seat belts on the back seat as you have three children? Separate DC 1 and 2 by the baby.

I think a 2 year old is not understanding time out on his own. @VivaVivaa It’s the 2 year old who should be in the pen or cordoned off space. Slightly unfair to put the 4 year old in a playpen! Poor child.

In my car, DS3 goes in the infant carrier in the passenger seat, with the air bag switched off, and DSs 1 and 2 are in the back. No problems.

We can’t fit three car seats side by side in DH’s car so we have a multimac- these have to be installed and reconfigured at particular garages, and the nearest one to us that can do it is 45 miles away (and no, we can’t just buy new cars).

OP posts:
Original poster
AngeloMysterioso · 02/02/2024 20:52

MeinKraft · 02/02/2024 20:26

Have you tried reading Hands are not for Hitting/Teeth are not for Biting?

Never heard of it! Will check it out

OP posts:
cestlavielife · 02/02/2024 20:57

All behaviour is communication
If you cannot talk and want attention what can you do? Show him
Keep them apart in car put one in front seat or build a barrier or strap gloves on

cestlavielife · 02/02/2024 20:59

And your 2 year old has an older and a new baby
I would be cross too

Froggy99 · 02/02/2024 20:59

AngeloMysterioso · 02/02/2024 20:52

In my car, DS3 goes in the infant carrier in the passenger seat, with the air bag switched off, and DSs 1 and 2 are in the back. No problems.

We can’t fit three car seats side by side in DH’s car so we have a multimac- these have to be installed and reconfigured at particular garages, and the nearest one to us that can do it is 45 miles away (and no, we can’t just buy new cars).

Show quote history

Multimacs aren’t safe. I would try and reconfigure different car seats so the children are separated and also safer.