To think you don't quite realise how badly the NHS is suffering until you witness it first hand

[DaisyCat33]

My parents are sitting in A&E today. They've just hit 12 hours. My dad was sent there by his GP for severe neck pain this morning. He's had morphine and an MRI scan, but they're now endlessly waiting to see a Dr about results. He hasn't even got a bed to lay on, despite debilitating neck pain. Many people are standing or sitting on the floor.

The couple sitting next to them have been there since 3am, for difficultly breathing.

I'm shocked. Honestly I knew the NHS had it's issues, but this bad?! It's frightening. I also had an email the other day saying my NHS dentist is closing, and it's basically a "well sorry no dentist for you any more, bye bye"

I don't really know the point of this thread really, I just feel shocked and upset that this is how it is. And I think a lot of people don't even realise? My parents definitely didn't until today. They are losing the will to live sat in that hospital.

Does anyone else just feel utterly helpless and anxious about this?

I wonder also just how much exposure pp have had with European ‘free’ healthcare. I worked overseas for years and it was barbaric. A British person was actually stitched without anaesthetic, they have seats that are like shopping trollies and it was filthy. Greece is horrendous. It was pretty much third world conditions. I wonder if people are mixing up their private healthcare experiences. Nowhere has a perfect free health care system and most that still do and are not co pay are much worse than ours!

We need a major, major overhaul and we need to have a reality check. We need a clean, efficient and ACCOUNTABLE NHS.
We all know this isn’t working, so who has the balls to fix it?

The lack of access to mental health care is a serious factor in the struggles faced by A&E - the more people with mental health problems are left to self-medicate, the more people you'll find in the hospital because of addiction, suicide attempts, accidents etc.

It's all so bloody short-sighted and having lost two friends to suicide in the past 5 years, I LOATHE this government.

Tbf we experienced a very poor situation in Italy, and came back pdq

Med schools yes but nursing & other AHPs? numbers are falling once again.
i'd expect you know the difference between a med school place for a Doctor and someone in a Uni doing a healthcare degree.

GPs were quitting in the 80s and 90s, hence the changes to try and halt this, we had a perfectly acceptable primary care service until recently.

You cannot reasonably expect a GP to be working a full working week but then be on on call 24/7 out of hours, get called out and then be at work the following day...
To provide a OOH service, you have to have GPs not working during the working day.... are you willing to fund this and how???

Why is it Labours fault that we have enough GPs now? after 14years in office...... bizarre.

On PFI oh how wonderful our NHS would be with even less Hospitals now and of course it was originally a Tory policy, carried on by Cameron.

The 6th richest country in the world is Switzerland. The UK is the 30th richest country.

DS has recently had shoulder surgery. He had sporting injury a couple of years ago and it deteriorated. We didn’t bother with the GP route, I know that he would have been sent to the physio without a GP even examining him, after a few sessions of physio they may have referred him back to GP who would probably have told him that as it didn’t cause him pain nothing more can be done. So moving on the injury would have deteriorated and in a few years the only option would be a shoulder replacement.
Even if he had been referred to a general orthopaedic surgeon the wait for surgery would have been 2-5 yrs.
DS is 19 and a keen sportsman, the thought of not being able to do any sport in the foreseeable future was beginning to affect his mental health.
He saw a top shoulder expert who diagnosed and operated ( still 6 week wait) and he is now recovering well.
The cost, well a couple of foreign holidays, my DS’s mental health is far more important than 4 weeks in the sun.

I actually retired from the NHS last year but I still work 1-2 days a week privately. The difference in attitude is incredible. Patients value their dental health when it is not significantly subsidised. I can see people the same day for emergencies and often have the time to treat them there and then or see them within a week or two for treatment.
I still do some NHS work for the 111 service. It is appalling that NHS dentistry is collapsing in front of us, but as a profession we have been quietly explaining the problem to the various governments in charge that it just doesn’t work. I was happy to provide NHS dentistry but was priced out of my job. When my contracted rate of pay was less than the patients fees we received and the difference had to be paid back to the NHS I decided it was time to throw in the towel. Now I get paid for what I do, like most people do. I can use the best materials and dedicate the time required to produce quality work. I was no longer morally or ethically willing to continue within the NHS.

Who brought in AfC?
So skilled nursing staff get paid the same as admin staff.
AfC is one of the reasons nursing pay rises are so poor -they would have to apply it to all staff.
Who turned down all attempts to introduce legal nurse/ patient ratios ?
I've never voted Tory in my life btw but successive governments lead the way and now the Tories have shafted the NHS .
I'm a Midwife of 34 years btw

I think a lot of people don’t understand that a&e is for emergencies. My son was there last weekend, he was an emergency, they accidentally discharged him from the system so he waited 2hours until my DH double checked they were in the right place. Then he was seen immediately, he was admitted to hospital, spent 3 days there. Had emergency surgery the following morning. The waiting time in a&e was 5.5hrs, the doctors announced how long the wait was and half the people got up and left.

I last went to a&e January 2021, I walked in and was immediately taken into resus and treated. They saved my life. Condition I had developed was a medical emergency.

A&E are overrun with people who shouldn’t be there as GPs have made it so difficult to get a face to face appointment since covid. But if you are genuinely an emergency you will be seen straight away. Otherwise you should be at the GP/walk-in/pharmacy.

Lived in Sweden and France, fantastic healthcare.

Also used Italian and German healthcare too.

Stitched without Anaesthetic??? yeah of course, did they then saw their leg off with a rusty blade as the patient chewed on a rum soaked bit of wood?

^Greece's health care system was ranked by the World Health Organization as one of the best in the world* (july 2022)

Its shocking people make things up to support their right wing beliefs.

At a rough guess, I’m thinking you didn’t attend Morriston or The Grange?

I think they were. Supporting their left wing beliefs. But, yes, you are right.

Other developed countries with similar populations seem to cope just fine and offer excellent healthcare - and while spending on healthcare in the UK is high, it's not that high compared to other European countries

Some interesting reading here - this is copied from here and is dated 16 November 2022
https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-comment/charts-and-infographics/how-does-uk-health-spending-compare-across-europe-over-the-past-decade

Key analysis points:

• This analysis examines how health care spending in the UK compares with EU countries in the decade preceding the pandemic. Taking a longer term view enables us to see how trends in spending may have impacted health care resilience today.
• Average day-to-day health spending in the UK between 2010 and 2019 was £3,005 per person – 18% below the EU14 average of £3,655.
• If UK spending per person had matched the EU14 average, then the UK would have spent an average of £227bn a year on health between 2010 and 2019 – £40bn higher than actual average annual spending during this period (£187bn).
• Matching spending per head to France or Germany would have led to an additional £40bn and £73bn (21% to 39% increase respectively) of total health spending each year in the UK.
• Over the past decade, the UK had a lower level of capital investment in health care compared with the EU14 countries for which data are available. Between 2010 and 2019, average health capital investment in the UK was £5.8bn a year. If the UK had matched other EU14 countries’ average investment in health capital (as a share of GDP), the UK would have invested £33bn more between 2010 and 2019 (around 55% higher than actual investment during that period).

The Labour government renegotiated the GP and dental contracts. They agreed/removed out of hours for both sectors and centralised them. Saving money was the main aim but it never worked. The lack of out of hours is the single most important cause of overcrowding in A&E.
Out of hours was never going to provide the same cover as individual practice out of hours. And most patients are funnelled into A&E. I think that addressing the primary care problems are where any government need to start.

Maybe now is the time to vote Labour. Maybe they can fix the mess they left.

Just adding my experience in the mix. Had major cause for concern and live alone. First available GP appointment a month away and told flatly to go to A&E if urgent. Drove myself and waited 8 hours. Waiting room stuffed with people who should be being triaged at least at primary care level but in absence of 'in time' appointments quite understandably are presenting at A&E. I am still unwell but the doctor in a&e at least fast tracked a specialist referral.

Have spent yesterday researching private GP services and whether I can afford private specialist care as I am really scared I am undiagnosed and untreated and the likely surgery could be years away. Earlier this year I had to pay privately for two cataract operations as I really couldnt see, and obviously couldnt drive. The NHS waiting list was 18 months.

I imagine many people are now living in fear of developing life threatening conditions as its a complete lottery whether the right care will be available in time. I feel for them, and for the doctors and nurses who just cannot cope.

I know the solutions are complex and the demands are far in excess of supply, but this feckless, useless, self-serving government has misery and death on its hands far beyond covid.

We have never had a national ooh dental contract, dentists would then need to open premises, lone working issues and practise nurses needed too.

GPs didn't want to provide OOH services as there purely wasn't enough of them, the service then went area localised and is still available IF your willing to travel to a MIU.

Do you expect GPs to work 24/7 ? who would take up the pre booked patient appointments of GPs who have been out all night?

AE is fucked because there is no ward space to move patients into, the numbers going to AE is not really any higher than pre Covid..... what has changed is no one wants to be a carer now.

@Fluffypuppy1 where do people get this 6th from?? I'm fairly sure we are not

Triage and put in the hole

This is nothing new. It has been a poor show for many many years.