To think you don't quite realise how badly the NHS is suffering until you witness it first hand

[DaisyCat33]

My parents are sitting in A&E today. They've just hit 12 hours. My dad was sent there by his GP for severe neck pain this morning. He's had morphine and an MRI scan, but they're now endlessly waiting to see a Dr about results. He hasn't even got a bed to lay on, despite debilitating neck pain. Many people are standing or sitting on the floor.

The couple sitting next to them have been there since 3am, for difficultly breathing.

I'm shocked. Honestly I knew the NHS had it's issues, but this bad?! It's frightening. I also had an email the other day saying my NHS dentist is closing, and it's basically a "well sorry no dentist for you any more, bye bye"

I don't really know the point of this thread really, I just feel shocked and upset that this is how it is. And I think a lot of people don't even realise? My parents definitely didn't until today. They are losing the will to live sat in that hospital.

Does anyone else just feel utterly helpless and anxious about this?

We moved to Belgium five years ago. My eyes have been opened to what a decent healthcare system is like. since moving here, I’ve had a major operation on my foot which involved nearly 11 months of recovery time and a specialist implant not even available on the NHS. The surgery was my choice and when I decided to go ahead I was scheduled within a few weeks. I’ve also had an emergency appendicitis. When I went to the ER with stomach pain, I was seen by a nurse within half an hour. She then told me she was admitting me immediately, and I was in surgery within four hours after they confirmed the diagnosis. Belgian healthcare covers dentistry and orthodontics. There are a decent number of GPs and I’ve never had a problem getting an appointment. Of course it is not totally free but the costs are really minimal. I’m not sure that I could move back to the UK after having healthcare like this. I think my husband and I always assumed we would go back. But we are in our 50s now and I don’t want to go back and have problems with my health and not be able to be treated effectively. when I had my appendicitis, my husband even said I shudder to think what would’ve happened to you if you’d had to go to the ER in England. I don’t want to sound smug. There are naturally issues with Belgian healthcare. To see some specialists is very difficult with long waits. They are extremely behind the times when it comes to menopause.. And I know that mental health services are dire. But on the whole I just cannot go back to a system that is is broken as the NHS. I strongly believe the current government just wants the whole system privatised so they don’t have to deal with it anymore. They will run it into the ground even more until people protest and then say we can’t afford it. It will have to be private. It’s so sad to me, I love the NHS

Exactly, which all comes down to the incompetent management. It’s so upsetting, this isn’t a labour vs Tory issue like some are saying, no one has a handle on the management structure.

This!
Elderly are the issue. We obviously want to keep our loved ones alive as long as possible but that is what is crippling the system. Maybe should be an entirely different service for v the elderly with b complex needs.
But the quality of management in the NHS is appalling because no government ever holds the. II account. It is not about money, but about incompetence in senior leadership.

I posted this on another thread recently:

The UK’s Maternal Mortality Rate is now 11.6. That means 11.6 deaths per 100,000 women giving birth.

In Australia it is 5.6.
For Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander women in Australia it is 9.4.

That means a woman is more likely to survive childbirth anywhere in the vast outback remoteness of Australia than she is in the UK.

I don't think 111 helps the situation. Everytime I have called for advice, it has always been to go to A&E, despite me saying it's not and emergency.

This. Nurse of over 30 years.
My frail 84 year old FIL has three types of cancer, one aggressive grade 4. Poor prognosis. He's had surgery, finished hard chemo which he couldn't complete, about to start radiotherapy with a view to possible kidney removal in the coming months. I mean, he's dying.....!?

GP's are statistically seeing more people now than before the pandemic.
With less staff.
We have yet another just give notice this week and another reduce down to one day. Can't recruit.

Wow!

Just wow!

The disparity between healthcare in remote areas of Australia and the suburbs is an alarming issue that regularly makes the news here (in Australia).

It puts it in perspective to see those statistics and realise I would be safer in the Outback than in the UK. By a big margin!

Yes, I’m petrified of actually needing to utilise the ambulance / a&e facility. The GP is bad enough.

Yes it is bad. I only hope that people do not vote Tory again!!! I don’t know what people who did vote Tory were expecting after a decade of deliberate underfunding and mismanagement of the UKs public services. I hope your parents are alright!

I've rarely been to a and e in my lifetime (54 years) but on those few occasions I've waited bloody hours to be seen

Broken arm age 9 waited 15 hours to be seen, got a cubicle and bed in a and e and waited another 12 hours to be potted up.
Pneumonia age 27, waited 9 or 10 hours plus the 2 hour wait for ambulance, got a cubicle and bed in a and e, 2 more days til I got a bed in a ward.
Suspected blood clot on lung 11 years ago, Monday morning, walked in to a and e and immediately escorted to a bed, no waiting at all, sent for all the tests and xrays and within an hour I'm on my way home.

Took a child to a and e I think in 1996, was a full 24 hour wait.

It's a crapshoot what service you'll get in which a and e and which city.

But in general a and e wait times have mostly been long.

I wonder just how many of the people complaining about the state of the NHS (and the rest of public services) will still vote Tory this year? My bet is a lot!

I had a Ukrainian living with me and got to know a lot of Ukrainians that way. The mostly return to Ukraine, a fucking war zone, for dental and medical treatment. I'm honestly ashamed of my country. But what can I do, people voted for this and continue to vote for more of the same.

Giving decent quality care to our elderly is not the problem. The problem is a government run by lobbyists with too many connections to health multinationals wanting health to be a business driven by profits. Instead of looking at other nations models with universal health systems, they prefer to do nothing and investment in NHS health has taken a nose dive.

Be careful going down the spiral of "the elderly are the problem". Next will be the disabled or any other group "unworthy" of receiving medical treatment.

This is how fascism begins.

I remember the state of the NHS in the 90s as well, terrible. It was in the news a lot. Then the Labout gov came in and things improved a lot (people have posted the charts further back). Then we voted them out and this is were we are.

Exactly. The poor outcomes for ATSI women is often put down to a myriad of factors: racism, cultural failings, sheer distance, genetic risks of certain conditions etc etc. It’s a blight on Australia, and there are knock on effects too, with increased risk of premature delivery, IUGR, poorer outcomes for babies etc.

Yet despite all that, they’re still better off than any pregnant woman in the UK.

My DD worked in the NHS, the amount of duplication caused by private sector involvement is awful.
Many services in the community/MH provided by private companies, all with own IT, HR etc NHS staff move between the organisations with full on job interviews yet carry T&C s over to either...... its a farce but ticks the many boxes to ensure X % is privatised.
These companies then charge the NHS whatever they like for services and equipment.

But like everything else in this country, its all old and lacks long term investment, we get a Lab that pours money in, then a Tory one which tries to privatise it and under funds.

Quite incredible we still get "The Tories know what a woman is" despite our appalling maternity services, some of the worst in the world.

Because they don't know the cost of anything they are careless about waste.
When I worked in the US we had to count how many inches of oxygen tubing we used, how many phlebotomy needles and syringes. The patient was billed for everything. I remember, when I came back to the UK, admonishing a student who opened a wrong litre bag of fluid which then had to be wasted. I knew it cost around £15. Probably more now. It hadn't crossed her mind. Cos it is free. Huge amounts of medication are wasted for various reasons, not always the fault of the patient. The whole system needs starting over but I have no idea how it could be done.

Yep, it’s bad. I’ve just booked to see a private ENT consultant as I can’t get an NHS appointment. I’ve been waiting for about 7 months now. My ear is constantly dripping white stuff and smells like mildew. It can get painful all down my jaw sometimes as well and I can barely hear on that side. I can’t go on like this 😢 My GP won’t give me any more antibiotics either!! Disgusting that I’ve paid all this money in tax and NI and I still have to go privately.

Exactly right.

Of course one has to wonder how the decline has come about. Our NHS was rated the best in the world. Does anybody have any idea what changed to reduce it to the third world chaos we now see....?

Whilst I don’t disagree on the whole, I do feel the need to add a positive story:

This morning DH had an accident and cut his hand very badly. He went to the walk in centre and was stitched up, bandaged and out of the door within 30 minutes!

The European model is completely different to ours! People pay for elements of their healthcare.

Yes and actually for once it’s not the Tories!

The government knew we had more older people, that people were living longer. They knew this years ago. They still underpaid nurses and doctors and reduced bed numbers. They knew this was going to happen.
People need hospitals more in their last 3 years of life than at any other time. The government don't care if they die. We have more old people than we need.
They don't do this to upper class old people. No they pay them to sit in the house of lords and sleep. We need to close the house of lords and use that money for the NHS. Nobody voted for them!!

Totally agree @alondra - they are not the issue and have as much right as everyone else to receive healthcare. My elderly mum has received fantastic healthcare ever since her cancer diagnosis two decades ago - she's now in her 80s and receiving palliative care now, but wouldn't have been with us this long if it was not for the NHS. Saying that, I'm well aware of how difficult getting NHS treatment is, having experienced the nightmare of A&E myself, but this is due to the politicisation and mismanagement of the system. I'm interested to know how the labour party are going to rectify this mess.