To think you don't quite realise how badly the NHS is suffering until you witness it first hand

[DaisyCat33]

My parents are sitting in A&E today. They've just hit 12 hours. My dad was sent there by his GP for severe neck pain this morning. He's had morphine and an MRI scan, but they're now endlessly waiting to see a Dr about results. He hasn't even got a bed to lay on, despite debilitating neck pain. Many people are standing or sitting on the floor.

The couple sitting next to them have been there since 3am, for difficultly breathing.

I'm shocked. Honestly I knew the NHS had it's issues, but this bad?! It's frightening. I also had an email the other day saying my NHS dentist is closing, and it's basically a "well sorry no dentist for you any more, bye bye"

I don't really know the point of this thread really, I just feel shocked and upset that this is how it is. And I think a lot of people don't even realise? My parents definitely didn't until today. They are losing the will to live sat in that hospital.

Does anyone else just feel utterly helpless and anxious about this?

I worked in the NHS through covid. The PPE provided mostly went in the bin! It was abysmal.

We got masks provided then told bin them they’ve been recalled. New masks arrived, they all had stickers over the expiry date. Peeled it off and found they were all expired. Went in the bin. Yet more mask ordered. Millions wasted because the government just bought any old crap.

An ambulance took hours for something life threatening with a relative where time was of the essence: they had had a stroke.

Hoping your relative is seen soon and treated OP.

The GP work load is absolutely obscene. They can’t work longer or later because those hours are already filled with all the hours of admin that needs to be done but can’t be completed in the working day because obviously that is spent seeing patients.
There are only so many hours in a session/day- every slot is filled with a patient / home visit / telephone call /e consult review / minor op - in between those scheduled slots are squeeze-ins, advising practice nurses/district nurses/paramedics/AHPs. Hours spent after their working day reviewing and actioning blood results, other test results, responding to hospital correspondance, making referrals, actioning prescription requests, attending meetings about their own surgery or the wider PCN or bigger scale than that even. Fulfilling the need for ongoing CPD, training updates, completing appraisals.
And that’s only the bits I can think of as a non-GP.
That’s before they’ve actually had a chance to spend any time with their own family/ fulfilling any social commitments that they may have (because despite seemingly common opinion, they are human beings with lives outside of the surgery aswell).
I see GPs still working until late into the night and every weekend - only to face constant abuse in the media, online and in person.

And I’m not a GP 😵‍💫

We spend far less per person on healthcare than any other European country. It absolutely is a money issue! It’s not the only issue of course but money is a huge huge cause of many of the problems.

Nobody wants to pay more tax though.
I have family in France. They reckon they pay around 50% of income in various taxes and compulsory insurance, but the health care is immediately available and very good. Between them, last year, they have had 2 emergency admissions and one had immediate surgery with excellent follow up and home visits. One hospital stay for several weeks with rehab and social support. Gp appointments can be booked on line, usually for the same or next day. Contraception/ smear tests/ pelvic exam all done by specially trained nurses who can order scans and refer on if necessary. French women get obstetric physio routinely after child birth. Co pay is based on income and seems to be reasonable.
Nursing training is free if you do it straight from school. I know there are difficulties in rural areas because many people prefer to live in towns, but I think that is the same everywhere.
I have worked through at least 4 NHS reorganisations, all of them just tinkering and wasting money. The amount of waste on useless IT is criminal. And PPFI. And CCGs. Round and round they go and nobody listens to clinical staff.

Also this is a supply and demand issue that the government have ignored. Population projections have been clear for 20 years, we have an aging population who therefore need more medical care and for longer. They could have invested in training an adequate number of doctors for our population accordingly. Instead, they actively recruited doctors from overseas because its cheaper than paying to train them in the UK, and didn't train or recruit enough of them. A lot of this crisis was predictable and avoidable.

And the long established companies who had been supplying the NHS for decades couldn't get a look in because the people tasked with organising PPE were giving millions to their cronies to set up pretend companies producing rubbish. People died as a result of sheer greed and incompetence.

I agree with this!

My GP is amazing and I’m lucky to be under a practice that still sees patients on a day to day basis. However, a lot of my friends and family members actually get advised to go to A&E for such minor things. I called 111 for something just to get advice and they demanded that an ambulance be called for my son. He was fine! I just needed medical advice that’s all.

We were then taken to A&E by the paramedics because they aren’t trained Paediatricians and anyone under 1 has to be taken to A&E to be double checked. I appreciate the thoroughness, I really do. But even they said there’s absolutely nothing wrong with him but they still have to take him. The waiting room was heaving and there wasn’t even anywhere to sit. Waited 8 hours to be told he was fine (which we all knew!) it’s awful. I’m not sure if things will ever change

There’s too much admin and infantilisation of the patients.
In France you’re sent your blood results by email and advised whether or not to see your gp with them.
Obviously the lab will also flag up concerns with the gp where necessary.
Also if you need to see a consultant the gp types a referral letter and hands it to you immediately and you make your own appointment.

We’re still short of gp’s in France but the system is much better than the UK.
Community nurses also visit patients who have had hospital inpatient treatment where necessary.
My dh had a home visit by a nurse for a tetanus jab after a dog bite.

I think most people are aware to be honest, this has been going on for a very long time now and the recent Tory government haven’t helped. I’ve seen and heard some shocking things, truly shocking.

I don’t know how you fix it. The problems are not new so clearly things will take a long time to change. I have no idea if any government will be interested in doing so.

I'm so sorry for all of the awful things that are happening to people but I'm not surprised.

Don't vote the Tories in again. The only people they care about use private healthcare.

The NHS was never like this under New Labour, despite their imperfections.

It most certainly is not the staff's fault - I'm so surprised the lot of them haven't just walked out.

I attended a meeting once where a practice manager announced with pride that they had the lowest number of referrals in the county. I was shocked tbh because I just thought the poor patients weren't getting the care they needed.
At least my gp referred me for a second opinion that was very much needed, even though I had to wait a year for it.

I think most people are aware to be honest, this has been going on for a very long time now and the recent Tory government haven’t helped.

The Tory government is responsible.

If you stop funding a service and instead redirect the money to tax breaks for the rich, this is what happens.

I had a baby in 2009 and a baby in 2019. So before Covid even kicked off. In 2009, everything calm and tranquil - hardly any noise. 2019, absolute chaos. Labouring women screaming, crying in the antenatal wards. Babies being born on the antenatal wards. Women being told 'you can't give birth yet', we don't have a room (real meaning we don't have a midwife)

Tbh, Tony Blair made thing worse with the PPFI and the rules about same day appointments. That is what started the whole fiasco about "no appointments left, try again tomorrow". He was taken to task about it by a furious woman on a chat show and he looked like a rabbit in the headlights. Of course the Tories have continued to make everything worse. Nobody has the courage or ability to sort it out. They just waste money tinkering at the edges.

It worked fine under the last Labour government.

The PFI initiatives have caused issues as well, yes. But all of the information available shows that the Tories have cut and cut and cut every public service. It's the same with schools, it's the same with any kind of service. It's their brand of politics. They serve the few, not the many.

@Jollyoldfruit That sounds lovely but remember France spends for more per person on healthcare than the U.K. does so that system isn’t able to be implemented without more money.

Any lump should be checked - even if it comes and goes

You were right to see your GP

But this thread should not be being used to critique individuals healthcare decisions

Tell me you use private healthcare without telling me you use private healthcare.

I work in Clinical Negligence Law, and we’re very very busy…!

I know I hear the worst of it every day but it is starting to get pretty shocking. I don’t think pumping more money in will help unless it’s getting to the right places, and it usually isn’t.

But this thread should not be being used to critique individuals healthcare decisions

Quite

This makes for interesting reading for anyone still thinking money isn’t the core of the problem here.

The U.K. has one of the lowest spends per person on healthcare in Europe. We can thank the Tory’s for that!

https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-comment/charts-and-infographics/how-does-uk-health-spending-compare-across-europe-over-the-past-decade

I have metastatic cancer

6 weeks from initial diagnosis to starting chemo, and a good service so far. But I'm able to advocate for myself - minor mix up with prescription for example, accessing info via MacMillan etc

BUT one potential side effect is neutropenic sepsis; it's v serious so I take my temp 2ce a day. It went too high, I rang the chemo line, they said straight to ED, asap. They rang to tell them I was coming in, I explained to receptionist

By the time I was triaged, I was laid on the floor in my own vomit. At that point, they moved really quickly, it was getting to the most urgent patient status.

The really scary thing for me is being told that despite being in my 50s and being considered otherwise "young and healthy" if I throw a clot, I'm unlikely to be resuscitated because I have metastatic cancer and therefore less likely to make a meaningful recovery - and ICU resources are limited.

@Tilllly I’m sorry to hear you are going through this.

I find it interesting that you think a 6 week wait for life saving treatment after diagnosis is good service however. Remember the days when it was 2 weeks maximum? It is that we have simply lowered our expectations so those reporting good service have simply come to expect less?