Two dog walkers chatting while their 10 dogs were off lead, and running around

[Upsetmother12]

Today I was walking my two small reactive spaniels on playing fields near my house. I always put them on a lead around other dogs. Normally, I walk my cockers in woodland away from other dogs and people. In part, because urban parks tend to be full of big dogs - like Huskies or Rottweilers. Today, my dogs were galloping around the fields when I saw two, I assume dog walkers, with ten dogs, including two huge mastiff like dogs and a Rottweiler, all off lead. These dogs were a literal dog pack and I knew that they posed a potential danger to me, my dogs and, worse, any toddlers that were on those fields. The women were weakly calling for them to ‘come back’. The dogs ignored them and the two women concerned were pretty nonchalant, and engrossed in conversation. I am angry. I am angry on so many different levels: 10 dogs running loose and together form a pack; the women were chatting away and completely oblivious to fouling and, finally, the fields are a public facility used by parents and children, in addition to dog owners. Am I right to be angry? I am so tired of dodging dog walker dog packs … argh. I feel that my small, elderly spaniel would have reacted defensively towards the pack and they, literally, could have eviscerated her. My spaniels only react nervously to other dogs, one of them having been mauled in the past by a husky and a Red Setter. It is not just XL Bullies who should be banned. Dog walkers should are ‘advised’ to restrict themselves to up to six dogs. They should be required to have a much smaller maximum. Is it because each dog is worth £25 and this means that 1-2 hrs work becomes more lucrative? Also, why do so many dog walkers walk their dogs in public shared spaces? Why not hire a field for 2 hrs (£40) and let the dogs charge around? Grrrr …. Btw, I am not attacking dog walking as a profession. I even thought about being one. However, I would never allow so many dogs off lead - especially if they were not mine. I am assuming that these two ladies were dog walkers.

Yes, off leash in a part of the field which was completely empty - until the 10 dogs appeared. I immediately leashed them and always put them on leashes when I see mums and children. How can you leash 10 dogs in time if a mum comes on to the field with toddlers? Especially if those dogs are failing to respond to their dog walker’s commands? Your interpretation is correct and, tbh, I do not enjoy walking in places like parks or playing fields. Mainly, because of other dogs - especially 10.

I agree with other posters. Dog walkers should be restricted to 2/3 dogs maximum. I also think that they should be licensed.

I think the rspca guidance is no more than 4 dogs should be walked by one walker at a time but nothing about leashing etc that I can find. I'd imagine they must have insurance so would be interesting to know what their insurance states.

Insurance for this profession, with a decent insurer is 6 dogs per handler.

they are as entitled to you are to walk anywhere. And aren’t doing anything wrong. Not breaking rules.

if your spaniel is nervous and as a result reactive then it should be muzzled and on lead.

dogs are not pack animals. They are dogs. After thousands of years of domestication THEH ARE NOT WOLVES. Dogs in groups play, they interact but they do not form packs.

I’ve been doing this job for 7 years, never seen them acting as a pack.

doesn’t sound like anything actually happened? If the dogs were playing nicely then why on earth would these dog walkers need to call anyone back?! Why does breed matter in this instance?

mind your own dogs.

Dogs in groups play, they interact but they do not form packs.

Ah right, so the 'group' of 7 or 8 dogs that chased me, my sister and our friend when we were kids, were playing. They charged at us, full force, and we honestly thought we were going to get mauled to death. We were close to home and managed to shut the gate, then the front door on them. Maybe ... they were wolves🤔

Husband and I walking in woodland when a dog walker who fostered dogs let them wonder freely. One of them walked past me then turned and started attacking me, snarling and biting at my back. Thank goodness I had a long thick coat on. I kept very still. My husband turned, picked up a big stick and ran at it. The dog ran off.

The woman said it's a rescue and walked off.

She still walks in those woods. 🤷‍♀️

Dogs do form packs, they bounce off each other's energy and will get more het up in a group larger than three. Maybe you've been lucky in the dogs you've walked but when dogs run or walk together they absolutely do form a pack and follow each other's actions. You can see it in street and feral dogs, they will naturally form roaming packs when together and that's when they will attack other dogs or other animals. They also have a dominance structure to said packs, you can watch anyone who does alot of work with stray dogs to see this behaviour, like Dev Naz's earlier videos on youtube.

Makes me think of the young woman (who I believe was a dog walker of some sort, potentially not officially in terms of an actual business, insured etc from memory) who was killed by the large group of dogs she was walking, including her own.

We've had some bad dog walker experiences but our current one is amazing. She will occasionally pair up compatible dogs if its of benefit to them (mine is a solo dog and he loves it) but usually it's one household at a time. She's worth her weight in gold!

This ^ 💯.

Nothing bad has actually happened here.

This woman in question was mauled to death by her own dog. It was an XL bully.

This post is so vague. Would be hard to tell. But I’m 99% sure there is more to this than meets the eye.

There’s two separate arguments here. One about groups or more than three dogs. And one about street dogs.

1. Has nothing to do with number of dogs. One, or even two dogs can be come over aroused and over stimulated. This can happen at the play park WITHOUT a professional dog walker and with regular pet owners. When people don’t understand dog body language- such as signs of stress/over arousal then dogs play wild, then can become ‘self employed.’ There’s growling. There’s whinging. There’s chasing. All very normal behaviour in dog play and learning but can appear scary to an average person. A good owner or professional dog walker will recognised these dings and stop or redirect play WELL before the animals become over aroused. During over arousal (if left to get to this stage) adverse behaviour is learned and engrained. THIS IS NOT A PACK
2. street dogs- completely different. these are dogs who have been born and raised by other dogs/themselves with absolutely NO human interaction. They will form relationships with each other. But will not form packs. They are not wolves.

Anyone interested further in this topic should read the latest scientific information available. It’s fascinating. Even a simple google search will help.

Why don't you post on your local fb? It's a good way of getting idiots to realise people are not impressed with their behaviour.

Plus the people that are paying for this service would get to know what they are paying for, numbskulls who think 10 dogs off the leash is acceptable

I'd have to agree OP. I avoid all parks, woodlands and rec areas now with my ddog as she is slightly nervous and I'm tired of off lead dogs who have owners who haven't trained them. See also people nattering while their dogs take massive dumps out of their eye line thus they don't clear the poo up.

Their customers already know. The customers recognise how valuable a professional dog walkers service is. It allows their dog to use the toilet, get exercised and socialised whilst they are at work or unable to do so themselves.

And if you do post on social media this only serves to attempt to destroy someone’s reputation, business and income. They’ll be insured, with legal cover and hopefully will sue you if you do.

ad much as you don’t like it or approve, they’re doing absolutely nothing wrong or illegal.

But I’m 99% sure there is more to this than meets the eye.

Like what @PennysLane?

I'm not saying it isn't somewhat unusual, but we were chased by dogs acting as a pack, which came out of nowhere. This was many years ago when people let their pet dogs roam the streets. We were still talking about the absolute terror of it right into adulthood. I am just questioning the assertion that dogs no longer have a pack instinct. It's anecdotal, granted, but it was something that happened to me. I don't even care why or how to be honest.

So if five people were each walking two off-lead dogs each at the same time - which would be very normal in a lot of popular parks - do you think those dogs would form a pack?

Dogs that don’t live together don’t form ‘a pack’. Ten stray dogs would form a pack. Ten dogs who live together in a home might, although having people around them all the time tends to stop that dynamic.

Ten individual dogs being taken out for a walk by two people do not form a pack.

Ultimately, if your dogs are reactive, they are the ones who need to kept under close control, not the ten non-reactive dogs that are happily playing together and have no interest in yours. If your dogs bark and snap and react when they see non-aggressive dogs approach them in a normal way, your dogs are the aggressors and that is your problem to manage.

Also your own anger and tension and fear at seeing other dogs running free, even when they aren’t approaching yours, is something your own dogs will definitely pick up on.

I would've taken photos of the dog walkers and called the police to be honest. That is so dangerous.

That’s ridiculous. It’s so important for people to have access to green spaces and to be able to exercise outside if that’s what they want. It’s awful that people like you are being deterred from going to parks.

I think we need dog parks AND dog-free parks especially in urban areas where there is limited green spaces. Parks are being turned into toilets for dogs and a dangerous place for joggers and toddlers.

Dangerous dogs legislation states you must be in control of your dogs. If you have 5 dogs - and many of them are not yours - how can you claim you’re in control ?

I’m not a twat 😁 and I only take on one dog at a time ( two at the absolute most if I know them well and they have met before)
Some of us are decent and not in it for the profits but just to make enough to live off and the joy of it.
I would never send my own dogs to walk in a big pack or to ‘doggie daycare’.. no matter how good they are they let them run around almost feral. I totally disagree with the six dog limit- it would take a v strong person to handle six dogs if they got out of control.

Just like that, there was automatically something more to it. It was years ago when people let the dogs run on the street. i rest my case.

@NotAnotherPylon how do you know they were using pack instincts, though? I’m not sure you quite know what it is and are just acting like a group of dogs = pack. Sorry that happened to you though, sounds scary.

Complete waste of time and resources. dog workers aren’t doing anything illegal.

If I saw the original posters reactive Dog off lead and out of control that might warrant phone calls to police as she’s already stipulated the dog is reactive and off lead.

i rest my case.

OK😆