Is my quote to convert bathroom to 2 small en-suites is taking the p*ss

[TightWadinSurrey]

So, we have been working on our house for 18yrs (labour of love) and want to get the final bits done so DH can afford to help the DC at uni over the next 5yrs and then be in position to retire a few years early. Maybe.

Our final project involves converting a long family bathroom that only my son uses into 2 en-suites (current bathroom is 2.4x 5m). This would create 2 rooms of 2.4m squared. Not huge, but perfectly good sized for shower room/en-suites. We want them to be nice in case we have to sell in an emergency (redundancy etc) so planned on sourcing nice walk-in showers, wall hung basins and loos, smart mirrors and towel radiators. Appreciate in the CoL times that there are few bargains to be had, so allowed £5k per room for these and a visit to Topps Tiles. Obviously hoping to do this for much less if I can snag stuff in the sales.

However… the builder’s quote (we’ve used him before, his work is perfect and he’s possibly overly thorough) to remove/chip out an old chimney breast (no longer supporting anything above it), close off a door and open another one from my son’s bedroom, plus the usual gutting, plastering, tiling, redoing the plumbing (big job I accept), lighting & electrics comes to… 26.5k plus VAT.

Ie, each little en-suite will cost us £21k after I’ve bought the stuff to go in it.

For a guest en suite that my MiL uses at Christmas or a drunken mate stops over in a few times a year and another room my 16yo will use until he goes to uni?

My head is exploding as I am thinking wtf??

AIBU - this is a totally fair rate in current times, so stop being so fricking tight
IANBU - this is taking the piss and I should either bin the idea altogether or find someone else at half the price and put the money towards uni accommodation in 2 years?

Is this with me sourcing the Merlyn shower enclosure/base and grohe shower myself? Or included (I know contractors can get good trade rates)?

I’d put in my mind initially to try and get the stuff in myself for £4k for each bathroom but things have definitely gone up in the online stores - he says he just uses Victoria Plumbing 😳 and doesn’t have a trade account anywhere so am asking for a quote from another contractor who I know has discount agreements for clients at a few local bath shops. We had a budget of £25k all in (10-12k per ensuite) but had obviously hoped to have massively over-estimated. 🤣

instead of en-suites could you do a Jack and Jill bathroom?

Surrey based SIL always gets Northern builders, plumbers, conservatory companies to do her work. Would that make a difference?

We've just had some work done to replace our existing en-suite (plus some replastering of two other rooms). The same builder did a separate job last year to reconfigure three rooms into two (stud walls removed and replaced); remove a chimney breast (and up into the small loft above so no need to put in steel supports); plus painting and decorating. The total cost of those two jobs was broadly similar to what you're describing - we paid around £17k last year and £10k this year (plus VAT), plus we spent another c£3k on shower/sink/loo/shower boards. We are also in London suburbs. While the actual jobs are inevitably different to yours there is a lot of similarity so I am not entirely surprised by the quote you've got.

@Tinkerbyebye it’s sort of a Jack n Jill now, but second door opens onto a corridor, though could easily be closed off and a new door put in son’s room. Bathroom would still need reconfiguring, but it could be made to work and save money.

May explore this!

You can go to a trade supplier and get those discounts yourself
or get the contractor to do it but you won’t see the financial benefit.
I always buy them myself so I see that discount,
The price I quoted is for everything assuming you do the shopping. Which is the fun bit anyway.

ps…Trade suppliers will give you a discount. We’ve always had one and we’ve never told them we’re architects.
I can dm you if you want to know who we use. If you’re the East side of Surrey they are in Gillingham Medway.

Get the building work and first fix plumbing/electrics quoted separately from the actual fitting of bathrooms.

Then price out the actual fittings on somewhere like Victorian Plumbing for all the bits. I've just paid the best part of £900 for a digital shower with both rajnfall and flexi head, plus £400 for enclosure and £200 for a decent stone resin tray. Then there's the bath & tap, cabinets, basin, tap, loo, flooring, tiles ... all trade prices but pushing £5-6k for everything before fitting.

Also, bear in mind your tradie will get better prices than you.

I think it is relatively realistic. The building materials are through the roof now. They pretty much doubled in the last year. So that alone plus labour costs is what is pushing the prices up. And if you have a quality builder who takes time to make things right (and a lot of them don't), plus sub-contracting a plumber... I can see how it would end up being close to 30k.

Don't you find that if they quote an insane price, it means they dont really want the job?

@Summerhillsquare we’d usually think that, but he did two other projects for us last year and pencilled us in for half term knowing we usually don’t quibble - however, he’s only just given us the full quote (because he needs to know current material prices) and now we have to either piss him off by saying we won’t now go ahead or swallow the cost.

As it is, he also quoted for loads of other things (making 8 doors fire reg compliant, fixing a drain, fitting plastic soffits on a bay wondow/porch, redecorating, laying a wood floor in one of the bedrooms) the total suggested bill was £75K!!! I have made clear, we’ll not be doing any of those things now. We HAVE to get the firedoors done and I am now thinking we just update the bathroom and make it into a Jack n Jill.

My fault for letting myself being fobbed off without an initial estimate until now, as I’d should never have booked him in. I should have pushed harder, sooner.

Forget the frippery and the gewgaws like the "smart mirrors" (wtf is a smart mirror) and wall-hung toilets and basins, which are a bastard to fix.

Just go with something classic, simple and solid that will last forever.

That will save you a fair bit I should imagine.

Actually he does everything except major plastering and gets an electrician in to ensure the stuff for building regs is legal as he’s not certified. Building, plumbing, carpentry, tiling, electrics, drains, roofing, window installations, brickwork even small areas of plastering.

Why are you installing fire doors.
Is this to facilitate an escape route from a new third floor?

I’m in the NE and 40k may get you a single storey extension if you’re very, very lucky. I think you’re vastly under estimating the current coats.

Yes, we had the loft converted into a couple of rooms and a bathroom about 5 years ago now and the builder who did it refused to come back and put on proper fire doors (+ tumescent strips and hinges that ensure they fully close) on the habitable rooms opening onto the hall way? We have a full smoke detector/fire alarm system throughout but that wasn’t enough :(

You can get the fittings for way less than £5k. Have a look at the plumb centre online.

South Oxfordshire here, so similar to Surrey in expensive area and commuter territory etc. We renovated a family bathroom and en suite in 2020 between lockdowns with a local bathroom company. No major plumbing or electrical work, just installing toilet, basin and bath with shower over, and tiling, en suite was a shower not bath. 13k without tiles, we bought those ourselves. Not the most fancy bathroom suite, kind of mid range. They also put flooring in (about 1 square metres of space). So given your job includes a lot more and reconfiguration I think it sounds reasonable. There might be places to look for saving money in all of that. Maybe rethink the design - would a separate toilet/cloakroom and then a bathroom work?

Friend did similar job recently.
Had no change from £35,000.
Has to get them back because the grouting between the tiles is coming off.

I bought a few lengths of studding wood last week
£15 for 4.8 m. Plaster board has gone up but is only going to be about £10 a sheet although that wedi board stuff should be used in bathrooms and that’s more expensive.
toilet basin shower £500. Tiles £200 if you’re splashing out and probably £500 to get them stuck on.

I don’t buy fancy though but have always been had positive feedback on the lovely bathrooms

labour times.
2 days to remove chimney and take it out side carefully labours job
2-3 days for a plumber to move all the pipes round
1 day I’m being generous electrician
2 days for tiling
4 days joinery stud work, doors to move hang and Other bits and pieces.
2-3 days for the plumber to fit the sanitary ware
1 day flooring
2 days decorating

You could get the trades in separately yourself and save paying the builder to oversee it all. The key trades are the plumber and joiner.

That's fucking ridiculous - depending on the chimney element. £10k tops per bathroom plus the chimney and a stud wall. I say this as someone who spent £2k on taps in her ensuite 18 months ago. Also shop around for ceramics. I like Roca stuff and the price varies massively we got our toilet online for £300 that was £700 in stores!

"The key trades are the plumber and joiner."

I'm thinking about what happens when you let the random in with the sledgehammer to smash the chimney down.

The quote looks high to me. But often if someones work schedule is loaded up then sometimes they will quote silly money. My guess is that he is in demand for the same reasons you want him, doesn't need the work and is therefore chancing it. Yes you can go to the competition for £££ cheaper. But what will the quality of work be like ? You take your chances as does he.

We live in a similar locale and have had two
different quotes to divide a room to make part into an ensuite. Bit of old chimney breast to remove, and plumbing and waste to be installed (the current waste is on the other side). Both quotes were between £20-25k depending on a couple of finishes. Not top of the range fittings by any means. Building costs have rocketed in five years.

😯

I’d be hopping mad! At least I know this guy is an utter perfectionist and he will do a job as though it was his own home.

Thank you everyone for the replies. We’ve decided that the costs are clearly impacted by being in the SE and, I guess, the fact that even local tradesmen are having to deal with increased rents/mortgages/bills so labour costs have rocketed along with basic materials.

We’ve decided to pare everything back - we’ll look at maybe not removing the chimney breast or just doing a luxury Jack n jill instead. Getting new/revised quotes now and I am going to be brutal with the ‘furnishings’- they can always be upgraded down the line!

Wtf