Any teachers out there ?

[eatdrinkandbemerry]

Can I refuse a scribe for my child?
He's got sen but a scribe isn't in any iep or support plan but they used one for a reading test today.
Surely they should have consulted with me before so I could decline to get a clearer understanding of where my child is compared to others his age!
I'm evidence gathering for an EHCP assessment application so I would like true abilities noted not falsified ones.

It depends what the test was for - if it was of his reading abilities, and the scribe just wrote down exactly the answer he gave, then this does show his true abilities. I’ve scribed for children before - if they can read and comprehend, it’s better to show that by using a scribe, then losing that information because a child can’t write their answers.

What age are they? If primary/ Year 6 then they may be testing it out as an option for SATS tests- you have to show evidence that adaptations like this are part of usual classroom practice for that child to be able to use them during the tests. They may have just been testing it out to see if it worked for them / allowed them to access the test at a fairer level so that they have it as an option to use in SATs. Ive done this with some children with fine motor/handwriting struggles to see how they respond- some children hate it as hate saying their answers aloud! Theoretically the only advantage a scribe should give would be to make sure all answers are legible and to avoid the physical exhaustion of writing so the content of the answers should be the same - although admittedly they may get through more of the paper. I can't say I've ever consulted a parent before testing it our though.

It will help your child to have a scribe in lessons and exams if they need one. I understand why you want to know what he can do without one for an assessment so surely this can be arranged with the school for a one off.

A scribe can only write down what the child says- absolutely verbatim, even if it's nonsense. I'm secondary and to have access arrangements in exams, there needs to be evidence of it being normal practice e. G in mocks. Technically you could refuse it but it wouldn't be in your child's interests.

For support like that to be given in external exams school need to be able to show it’s normal practise. They wouldn’t provide a scribe unless they thought it was needed

It seems odd to refuse an adjustment if it is going to help your child. The school are well placed to judge what is needed or to try things to see if they help. Strategies that are not recorded can be tried. Wouldn't it be better to simply ask the school whether they think this is helpful or not?

No they don't need to consult you about it in advance.

It does show his true abilities. If there is a significant difference between what he can answer with and without a scribe, this shows that he is disadvantaged by his inability to write ( presumably at speed) . We often find that, when being scribed for, vocabulary improves as children are not just using words they can spell but more advanced vocabulary they are too scared to include. It is this DIFfERENCE that is going to support you in seeking an EHCP and not hinder you.

If your dc was sitting a reading test, the use of a scribe is an ideal way of ensuring their reading ability is assessed as opposed to their writing abilities.

It sounds like you want any assessments to show them in the worst possible light. Most children who have an EHC needs assessment will have a cognitive assessment carried out by an Educational Psychologist. This will provide evidence of their educational attainment / potential.
You’re focussing on the wrong thing here.

For a reading test it's quite normal practice to scribe for children who struggle with writing or if their writing is hard to read. This will help them assess his reading ability which is the aim of the test.
It shouldn't affect his EHCP which is based on the adjustments and support needed day to day at school.

Thanks for the explanations.
I'm only querying it because he does have writing difficulties but his school won't make reasonable adjustments which have been advised by the occupational therapist in a normal school day.
He has been recommended to use a laptop for writing but school have totally refused him so it just didn't sit well with me that he gets a scribe during a test as it's not his normal way of doing his schoolwork.
He's year 5 so we would like him to practice his typing in school (as well as home) so that he's more efficient with it for when he starts high school.

What on earth is their reasoning for refusing a laptop? Espically if an OT has recommended it. I’d be booking a meeting with the senco and asking them why they’re not following the send code of practice!

So has he been practicing at home? Using a scribe rather than typing out answers would be much more preferable in a test.

OTs often make suggestions that are not feasible in school. Many children, especially those with other learning disability SEN, find it very very hard to use a laptop to complete school work. There are few activities that translate easily into being completed using a laptop,

Of course we practice with him at home but its slow going as he spends a huge chunk of his awake hours at school!

Could you explore dictation software / ipad with a keyboard with his teacher rather than a laptop? If he gets used to dictating he'll feel more comfortable with a scribe in a test situation. It's a lot easier for adapting regular classroom work as they can just take a photo of the worksheet or task and annotate/dictate what they want to go in each box etc. It does take a teacher who's a bit more forward thinking but I've seen it work wonders in Y5 and 6, especially when used in conjunction with something like Google classroom. Sorry - a bit off topic for the thread but I find it frustrating that supporting children to access their education hasn't made it as far as the 21st century!

I second the post about ots and laptops. Most secondary students I work with struggle with laptops. Many can't resist the Internet which is tricky to disable because that is how you print.
Also creates an actual barrier between the child and the teacher. The exact opposite of what we want.
And OTs don't work everyday in classrooms so don't get how this translates.

Indeed. Actually, laptops are worse for giving a false impression of ability unless you disable spell check and grammar functions. They are also impossible to use in all but straightforward writing lessons and very slow!

I'd love for him not to have to use a laptop but his fingers are almost like jelly with unstable joints and missing all his last finger joints so its physically painful for him to write more than a couple of sentences.
My point being is nothing is written in his support plan he's just expected to keep trying with his pencil so even he was shocked that someone wrote for him today. He's year 5 and this has never happened before so I presume it's in preparation for his sats.
I'd rather they agree to meet halfway in all his normal lessons( the dictation software is something i will read up on ) because sats are not important to me his physical comfort is my priority.

@eatdrinkandbemerry

You have already stopped the issue with a laptop and most schools wouldn't now where to being with typing and would have to outsource it.
Having said that I believe that touch typing should be taught in schools.

This is absolutely not true! Scribes are much rarer than laptop usage. Also, unless the child dictates every punctuation mark and letter by letter, spag must be disallowed. OP is quite right to expect school to be providing a laptop. They're effective when people can be bothered to use them correctly. It's also likely not to to be for every subject, more the essay ones

Not all pupils that used laptops are allowed to used the spelling and grammar functions. Unless it is part of their ECHP.

@Soontobe60@Soontobe60 and yet many secondary school schools not only let dc use them but some let all dc use them?

Writing tasks can be done on laptop

@eatdrinkandbemerry

OK, so how on earth does he write in normal lessons with joint issues etc?

I think it would be a good idea to get an assessment of his IT needs and capabilities. Depends on fine motor development and existing strength etc. There are so many AAC apps available, iPad or tablet better than laptop. He cgould use the mic or a scanner, tons of software. Very surprised that the school would turn this down. An SEN school are usually downpat with AAC technology as they use it all the time.