To feel really sad about the Nottingham killings?

[HelloPossums]

I know I’m not being U to feel sad about the Nottingham killings: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/23/nottingham-stabbings-the-family-victim-statements.

Now that the details of the murders have been released, it has kept on playing on my mind. I feel terrible for all three people who were killed in the Nottingham attacks and their families too.

There was so much more coverage of
the two younger people in the media though (which seems very normalised now). I felt really sorry that their lives had ended when they were so young and had so much potential. I feel a bit ashamed for thinking this, as everyone’s life is important and precious - not just those who are young and whose lives seem to be full of potential.

I felt like this when Sarah Everard was murdered as well. When the details of what she went through came out when her killer was sentenced, it played on my mind for a while. I felt terrible for her and her family/friends, and just became more cautious and aware of my actions when I walk around at night (I’ve always tried to be quite careful, but just became a bit more cautious).

I think it’s those little details released in the media of the murders, and also details of their lives before the murders happened, that I find upsetting. I don’t think I’ve been dwelling on it too much, but I’d be grateful for some tips on how to stop thinking about it. Thanks 🌺

I’ve read a lot about this in the last few days and watched the interview with Barney’s mum this morning, I was in tears as my son is the same age and was also just finishing up year 1 and looking forward to the summer. I saw the clip of Barney and Grace walking along, on their way home and it was horrible. I read that Grace’s dad stayed in the room (other 3 parents left) and watched the attack. I just can’t even think about it. My heart goes out to them and Ian family, he should have been enjoying his retirement now. Some murders really impact me and this one really did. Grace sounded like she would have been an amazing doctor - and I’m sure Barney would have gone on to do something great too. Just senseless

Oh Zanatdy that must be tough to think about this news, especially as your son is the same age as they were 🌺

I also watched that same interview that Barnaby’s mum gave, and it was so moving. She spoke so eloquently and with such composure, and it just seems so clear that all three families affected by the killings all loved each other so much.

I think that’s what makes me feel so sad - that they came from such loving and supportive families, and that the families have been so dignified and brave when they’ve talked about the loss they’ve gone through after the killings.

Also, the legal process and system that they have had to navigate - whilst dealing with their grief - is so complicated, which adds an extra layer of stress and confusion.

I feel so sad for them that they didn’t get the result they wanted from the sentencing. I think I can understand (as much as I can, for someone who’s not a legal professional) why the killer got the sentence he did - manslaughter rather than murder.

I’m not sure I agree with it though. From reading news reports, it seems like the killings were pre-meditated. He may not have spent time choosing the people he would kill, but he had time to prepare the weapons he would use and he lay in wait for the people he would kill.

I’m not sure I would be able to behave as bravely as they have if anything like that had happened to me.

Incredibly tragic. Very dignified families.

I feel exactly the same. It seems as though if Nottinghamshire Police has done their job properly this tragedy may have been prevented.

it's good you posted this .. I feel the same - I've got DCs of a similar age and I've found it really really hard to read about - especially knowing more could have been done . Just when you think you've got your kids to adulthood it's all taken away x

My son is at Uni of Notts and has walked those streets after a night out many a time. That CCTV made me weep.

The CCTV of the two young people walking towards their deaths is just heartbreaking. I hate grief tourism but god you'd need a heart of granite not up be upset by that and the fact that the caretaker was months away from retirement. All 3 of the families have been so dignified, I only wish he'd got the sentence they felt he deserved.

I think that’s part of why I’ve been so upset about it. I don’t have kids yet, but one of my close friends has just had a baby and I went to visit them recently. I held her little baby and just wanted him to always feel safe, happy and protected ❤️ I’m sure that’s a general natural human instinct we all have, pretty much, but it really came to me when I held him.

I can’t imagine the pain and grief of having your children die before you. Not only do you have the grief of your children not being alive anymore, but you have the added grief that they died in such a sudden, violent and painful away and you couldn’t be there to protect them. It’s heartbreaking.

I've found a lot of events like this really tragic lately. I get more upset about them as I age. What I find really tragic is that if our public services were functioning as they should be a lot of these events could have been avoided. People are dying and suffering as a consequence of this. The family that died this week has demonstrated this. I'm fed up of hearing about 'learning lessons' from tragic deaths, when nothing changes.

Why do you read the details? I’ve seen nothing but headlines. I’m local so pick up a bit in the air, or the first few posts on threads like this. I don’t look deeper. If I engaged with all the tragedies, big and small, I’d sink without a trace.

Are you generally free of stress in your own lives, and thus have capacity for more? I am connected to quite a lot of distress and couldn’t encompass more.

Yes I have been very affected by this too. My DS is also a student at Nottingham and I remember texting him as soon as I saw the news headlines.Feeling so anxious.
I think we need to channel our sadness into trying to make our world as safe for our DC’s as we can .Things need to change .These deaths were preventable and we should not just accept it .There is another thread about the Nottingham killings.

Absolutely agree ❤️

I’ve felt myself getting quite upset and affected by the death of Alfie Steele, also reported in the media. Just like you, I feel outraged that there’s a high chance that nothing will change for the better, following his death (and the Nottingham killings).

He suffered so much, and so many alarms were raised that could have prevented his death, but they did not. He is the latest in the long line of children who have suffered needlessly and died preventable deaths, and whose deaths have led to serious case reviews and vows that ‘lessons will be learned’ - but have they really? I’m not convinced.

I am absolutely not pointing the finger here at frontline workers (e.g. social workers). They work long hours in horrible conditions to help children, and the majority of children they help appear to have safe, happy lives, and a few children within that group are the extremely unfortunate ones who do not have safe and happy lives.

I am most angry at the government - not just the current government but all governments. They chop and change social care systems and registers according to their political ideology, which creates instability and discontinuity, causes social workers to lose faith and morale and ultimately costs children’s lives.

I think we urgently significant investment and reform in social care (and in all public services). This investment and reform should be done as soon as possible and reviewed regularly - by experienced professionals in that sector, not by the government - and if there is clear evidence that it is doing more good than harm, it should remain.

@HelloPossums I was also so saddened to hear that Barnaby’s family felt railroaded into a manslaughter conviction.

However someone can plan and execute complex things whilst under deep psychosis. The mother’s statement said that he clearly wasn’t a swivel-eyed lunatic which just shows a lack of understanding of how severe mental health episodes look.

I have a close family member who suffers from severe psychotic episodes, and they, from their section ward, have engaged legal teams and all sorts of complex things to articulately explain that they are a secret agent who has been abandoned by MI5 for knowing too much. They believe it at the time and honestly with how articulate they are you would believe it too… except that this person is in their 60s and was a SAHM and housewife her whole life, in no way a secret agent!

My point in sharing this is that people who suffer from psychosis can seem to be planning things but the manslaughter plea is because they would never have done such a thing in their right mind.

I feel so sorry for the killer and his family as well as everyone else in this. I read that before he became sick he was studying mechanical engineering so he must have been super bright, with a great future ahead of him, and his life was blighted by mental illness. The professionals involved with him were all in agreement that he was totally convinced he and his family were in danger. It’s such a shame no one was able to engage him to persuade him to get help. I do know from my relative though that the anti psychotic drugs are so horrible and make you feel so sick i understand why people avoid them. I don’t think when he stopped taking them he thought he’d kill anyone.

Good point. I like following the news and am generally curious about things, and want to stay informed. I think reading the details about something - even for upsetting events - helps me understand it more and to be able to process it better. I do understand that it isn’t always helpful though - I think that’s partly why I created this thread. I hadn’t realised that there are other threads on this topic though - sorry.

Thanks for posting this, that’s so insightful. I also feel really sorry for the killer and his family - I can’t imagine what his family are going through. I think he has been let down by the authorities and public services too. There were so many opportunities to stop him, and give him better help and support, and these were not taken. I have little understanding of psychosis and can only speculate on how horrible and scary it must be to live with it.

It’s very upsetting to read the details of such terrible crimes. I’m afraid I often have to avoid reading the full details because I can become fixated on such things and unable to stop thinking about them. Sarah Everard’s was one such case which I did not stop thinking about for some time. Specifically the time spent in the car on that quite long journey- what was her state of mind? It’s unbearable. My heart goes out to Sarah’s family and to the families of these victims in Nottingham.

For me personally I often choose to avoid reading beyond headlines of such stories, and try to distract myself (and then remind myself that I’m very fortunate to be in a position to do that). I see other posters have said similar.

It has really upset me too, possibly because I have two kids at Uni in their first year just like the victims. A colleague also got attacked last year by someone with paranoid schitzophrenia on her way to work in broad daylight and she was very badly injured. If he had had a knife I'm guessing she would be dead too. When it happens to someone you know like that it just makes you realize that we have no clue who is walking around in this state of mind and that clearly care in the community is wholly inadequate. You then start to realize that we are all at risk. The parents statements and those of Ian Coates's sons were truly heartbreaking.

It has really upset me too. Just the senselessness of it all. Such a tragic loss for all involved.

My dd is a 3rd year student at Nottingham and lives on the street Barnaby and Grace were killed - as many students do, it’s a very popular student street. It’s just such a random, awful thing to happen. It makes you feel there is no logic or point to life at all.

I feel so utterly distraught for the families.

Exactly this. Whilst care in the community is failing so badly and mental health services are so awful, all of us are at risk.

I felt exactly the same with Sarah Everard. I found myself fixating on the car journey and how terrifying it must have been. I think the fact that it happened during lockdown - and was so connected to lockdown rules and regulations - made it more difficult for me to stop thinking about it. I found lockdown quite difficult mentally (although I am very lucky that I wasn’t affected by the pandemic at all, in any way, beyond feeling a bit uncertain and on edge during lockdown). I had more time to ruminate on things during lockdown, which I can see is not helpful.

Thank you for your advice here - it’s really helpful. I too feel very lucky that I can try and distract myself from horrible news headlines - thank you.

There is another thread discussing everything here - if anyone would like to read it -

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4993285-nottingham-attacks-verdict?page=1

It could have been prevented. The killer was deeply unwell and had begged to be arrested before the attack. He was a walking timebomb who shouldn’t have been walking the streets. Those poor families, I can’t even imagine what they’re going through.

It will happen again because social services are in complete disarray, and there appears to be no communication between agencies.

I know someone who had a period of schizophrenia a few years ago. She told me some really out there stuff in the most calm manner. She really believed her neighbours on both sides were plotting together to get her. She claimed she had ‘heard’ them discussing their plans. None of it was true. She was really scared of her own thoughts and self harmed. Luckily she got proper treatment.

This guy shouldn’t have ever been in a position to wander around. Care in the community doesn’t work when an illness is that bad. Those poor victims were robbed of their futures and it could have been prevented. There should never be an opportunity for the killer to be released from the secure unit.