To ask teachers and parents if Covid still has an impact on kids four years on

[Backtoit123]

Just that really. Four years on don’t still notice a major effect on children from the pandemic. I’ve heard teenagers say they feel a few years younger due to their ‘pandemic age’ but my DC are grown up and I don’t work in teaching so it’s hard to know. Do you recognise a major difference in kids now compared to kids of the same age before Covid? AIBU to ask if the pandemic still has left a legacy on children’s development?
YABU- no it doesn’t
YANBU- yes it does

Yes. My DD started Reception in 2020 and because until 2022 she never did a full year in school thanks to lockdowns and people testing healthy children, therefore resulting in the entire class being sent home, she has severe separation anxiety and every day it's a battle of tears and meltdowns and shaking to get her into school.

My BIL works in SEN and he says the amount of children he sees with anxiety, behaviour issues or undiagnosed SEN has massively increased since the pandemic.

My sister has autism & ADHD and was doing her A-Levels. Because her routine was disrupted and she was locked in her house with no friends etc she became massively depressed, angry and unstable and attempted to harm my stepmother and herself.

I'll never lock down again.

I'll add as well it's not just kids as others have said - it's young adults who were late teens when this happened. In my work we hire graduates - the overwhelming majority flat out refuse to attend an office (i don't want to, but it's in my contract so I have to suck it up!) have no respect for deadlines, never have their cameras on, always on mute, basically no real idea how work, works. I think it's because they went through the end of uni on Zoom/had exams cancelled, so haven't really had the introduction to the adult world properly? So you can't just say you couldn't get the work done, and there be no consequences whereas in lockdown we all kind of got free passes (I know I did, becsuse we were all in a difficult situation). I'm not blaming them, it's just the effect the lockdowns had on that age group.

I will admit I am angry at the government. Not for the initial March 2020 lockdown... that was inevitable with the fear sweeping the world not just UK.

But for the mismanagement that cam afterwards. For not prioritising education... and when they did, just a small number of year groups. For underfunding education and health care prior to 2020. For the stuff that emerged afterwards like the parties and so on. Then closing the schools again.

However being angry won't change that. It happened, we have to deal with the consequences.

Anger might not change what happened. But it might change a future government’s approach. This is why I think that it is vital that we show our anger about this, and not simply say “oh well”. I think there should have been much more anger about the consequences of lockdowns at the time. What I found far more terrifying than any virus was how easily the public keeled over, and allowed the government to treat us like this; and how lockdowns were instituted with no parliamentary scrutiny, no cost benefit analysis, no exit plan, no acknowledgement of the massive harms which were staring everybody in the face.

There’s a Covid page to feedback. I know it’s not much but let them know the damage. It’s better than just on here

Did you see mn at the time btw? Generally the effort was to close people down, it was bad

@scalt

And if anyone says to me "you sound angry": yes I am, and I am not ashamed of that at all. And I expect millions of other people are as well. Widespread public anger is one of the many legacies of those lockdowns which some people pleaded for.

Did they? I didn't see evidence of that. Re: the rest of your post, you're aware that the measures were largely the same - if not more lax - than countries elsewhere?

@Arbor were you in favour of shutting schools then?

This is interesting. My dd10 is a completely different child-she was diagnosed with inflammatory bowel disease towards the 'end' of Covid, symptoms started around beginning of Covid & both my parents died during & then a year ago so she had a lot of stress & I'm really hoping she's starting to improve & get back to some of the happy child she once was

I think it was a reasonable measure at the time, yes. The shorter the closure period, the better, of course.

I work in education - 16 years now - and to be honest. No, not any more.

I feel like we turned the corner this past September, and had been well on the way for the previous 6 months.

I feel like a bit the lone voice though. But I can honestly say that the kids I see these days aren't any different to the kids I was teaching pre-covid.

As a professional (medical, not teaching) I can say with certainty there is still a cohort of society who are feeling the impact and will do for a while. We see it in patients and also more recently qualified staff who’s courses were affected by lockdowns (more other health professionals than doctors)

As a parent, I have been fortunate my children were on the younger side. It was hell juggling work with a 1 and 3 year old when we locked down almost 4 years ago. Fortunately the older one thrived and we had them back in nursery by lockdown 2021 to help catch up. They are however still suffering the consequence of a medical issue that was not diagnosed properly thanks to lockdowns. I did a lot of socialising with younger one when things opened up and really invested in trying to catch up with what they missed - I am lucky that I had the time and money to do this. At the point of starting school, I felt like they were on an equal footing to their older sibling.

I'm a university lecturer, wanting to get out now pretty much due to the fact I can no longer do my actual job as it now is more like being a mental health nurse/nanny.

I don't get lunch breaks or time to plan my lectures or do any research because students arrive constantly outside my office or lecture theatre door in states of blind panic/threaten self harm or suicide/or are extremely paranoid about someone looking at them funny or something they've seen on social media that may be aimed at them.

It has spiralled out of all control in the past 3 years and is getting worse.

They can't cope socially. They can't cope with deadlines. They can't not be on their phones and when I ask them to put them away while I'm teaching, I get a complaint made about me. They can't work together. They can't work independently. They want deadlines moved, attendance made optional, assessment methods changed. They complain about everything...from reading being online to reading not being online, to having to do their own research rather than going to the library themselves. It's not a minority, it's a vast VAST majority.

My job is unrecognisable. These are no longer young adults. They are adult children. Most of my 20 year olds are stuck at what age 13/14 used to be. And I can't be mother to all of them. I just can't anymore.

for DS1 it’s triggered OCD. He was in school (keyworker), but the only one in his year for some time, so was very isolated, until they made the decision to put him with the year group above (still only 4 kids). He had to wash hands every 20mins as per government guidance wtf did they think he was touching in a classroom on his own with a teacher all day? His OCD escalated to the point his hands were red raw, and was an anxiety ridden mess - he honestly thought he was going to die and loved lockdown in fear. we had to access private counselling as CAMHS waiting lists were too long.

DS2 benefited from the small class size he had - is autistic so got a lot of 1-1, and frankly enjoyed the quiet in school. However, he’d been referred for ADHD assessment and thanks to lockdowns had to wait 3.5years to be assessed, and now a further 6 month wait for medication appointment.

totally agree with pp - it’s not covid that’s responsible but the lockdowns.

@zingally what age group do you teach? Kids who were at secondary in lockdown, ones who were babies, or in between?

I don't think anyone has mentioned the financial cost, especially of the over 3 million who were excluded from the support grants, mainly freelancers, self employed, etc.

I know of several families whose children have been massively affected due to their parent's losing their businesses, savings, in extreme circumstances, their home, etc., even for less extreme cases, many of the parents affected no longer have "spare" money for clubs, societies and hobbies, etc.

It is different for everyone depending on combinations of age, circumstances, personalities, support available and many other factors.

Covid took my mum in traumatic circumstances, it financially screwed us as dh barely worked for almost 2 years and we had no government support, it fell over 2 school exams years for my teen ds when the little online learning he got was very poor quality. It was hard.

Now, I still miss my mum every day, financially we are surviving/slowly recovering.

For ds covid had some huge positives such as having to be more independent, taking responsibility for his school work and having less distractions during studying let him know what he was capable of if he works hard and it played a part in focusing him to get into his uni and course of choice. The peak teen "drinking in parks" years passed him by and by the time he came out of covid he was too old for it (I'm glad we missed them!). He kept his social connections alive with online games, long outdoor walks, or challenging each other with keep fit targets and sharing photos of meals they learned to cook. I said to him towards the end of pandemic years, he went into it a boy and came out a young man and I am proud of what he achieved during it.

If covid could appear to have such a positive impact on my teen ds, it stands to reason it could also appear to have significant negative impacts on others of the same age. Speaking to other mums I know, their dcs experiences vary greatly, those that had some issues with school and social interaction prior to covid, and/or needed more support from either schools or parents (who were not able give it for whatever reasons such as both parents being key workers and no other family support) seem to have been hit the hardest.

With the teens years already being very unpredictable and "normal" life known to throw in its own curve balls, I guess most of us will never know, individually, if our dc will have had significantly different long term outcomes if they hadn't lived through covid. Looking at what is happening around the world now, while it was hard and is still hard, there is much worse they could have gone through.

I recognise all this but from the perspective of graduate cohorts coming into the workplace over the last couple of years

As I mentioned on a previous post up thread, the maturity levels and general performance is so much lower than the groups that were educated pre covid

Education wise
As i say y3 missed 8w of reception so over 1/6 40/190= 21%
Plus likely time on reduced hours - ours was at least 30min per day so
1235 became 1140. So 8% more lost
Every 14d isolation another 5%
So dd got maybe 66% of reception. Without adding all the extra covid processes

Mid mar to july of nursery missed 75/190 days 39%. If didnt go back.
No nativity for parents.
No trips reception or y1.
But will depend on whether key worker of not.

Ks2 results at school were better than ever. But behsviour for learning is very low.

The affects on y2 would not be on time on school. Nursery didnt close for their preschool year. The effects would vary greatly depending on parents wfh or not.

What would be the mechanism for many dc habving s&l issues from masks -- in Uk?

1 many children in nursery 1-4yo but what % of nursery workers wore masks. As it was specifically advised against
2 of children at home toddler groups were cancelled (not great for s&l but masks did come in later. However how many hours a week would average child have been there
3 likewise shops. Thats at most 20min a day
4 both my dc could speak words before 1yo. And pretty fluent by 18m. So with more tsking 12m mat leave. And many going part time. The window of children affected by masks would be pretty low not the claimed y3 downwards.

Much more likely it is the not going out as much so less conversation. Closed nurseries. And toddler groups. But also increased screen time. Who were 3.6yo+ when covid hit.

Logically if we do say masks are an issue?? Why? If it is unclear speech? Or not seeing mouth? Screens are as much an issue for this. Unclear speech and often cartoons with no mouths shown.
Parents wfh and childcare - less interaction again.

It maybe that children learnt not to look at adult faces/mouths.

Other countries with higher mask adherance in children at primary and nursery would have very high s&l issues.
If ours is higher then masks are better than isolation (which is obviously the case for education).

Anxiety otoh is isolation? Loss of friends and routine. Being behind academically.

Would be interesting if uk is generally much worse affected than most of the world?

I have a son in Y1 and I have often thought he was the ‘best age’ for the pandemic if that makes sense. He was in nursery and they only closed for 3 months during the first lock down and then remained open. I don’t believe he was affected and I don’t know any other parents who say their children are still suffering from the effects of the pandemic.
Obviously, this is just my experience and I do absolutely believe that other children have been negatively impacted - specifically those with SEN

@wonderinglywondering If a child (with an aunt ? With asd and adhd) is anxious about school to that extent it may not just be separation anxiety. ??
My dd1 did the 10d of into to reception ok after that it was drsgging her in. She got better after a few months. Bht still hates school and has asd/adhd referral...

Yes the lockdowns and in and outs of schools wont have helped many kids settle but if you do have ND relative it may not be the lockdowns

I haven't RTFT, so apologies if this has already been mentioned. Behaviour has been massively affected. Kids whose only boundaries were provided by school had up to 6 months at home in an environment where they could do whatever they liked, either because parents were too busy working to parent or because they were pretty shite indulgent or neglectful parents to start with and school was doing most of the heavy lifting anyway with regards to teaching appropriate behaviour. Many are utterly feral, argumentative and disrespectful.

@FuckOffTom my son is the same age and I always thought it was the worst affected age by miles. Interesting to hear that others think the opposite, thank you for a different perspective!

My son was 3 in 2020.

He is doing OK in school but has a bit of a highly strung personality and I do wonder if that time period might have made him into a stressier person. But we can't really know for sure. He didn't really understand why we had to be locked down so it was hard for him to have grandparents/nursery etc.. taken away and a completely different routine. So that coupled with the fact he's a bit of a control freak now does make me wonder if it's due to the pandemic.

Covid had a lasting effect on so many people; elderly people cut off and alone, immune compromised people afraid and abandoned, young people starting off in the world of work, middle aged people caring for elderly people, etc etc etc
Of course young children have been shaped by it as has everyone else. But I don't think they have suffered more than anyone else. There are so many people who suffered, who couldn't say a proper good bye to loved ones, whose already fragile mental health took a nose dive, whose businesses crashed. Society suffered and every age group was affected. Were children affected more than anyone else? I don't think so. But yes they were affected as were we all.

My child was 10 when COVID hit and is still very highly anxious about catching COVID even though they've had it several times.

Just the mention of the word COVID has them on high alert almost and in a bit of spin.

All the focus on hand washing developed into quite severe OCD.

The rest of the family came out of it ok as far as I can tell. My then 9 year old is showing no signs of anxiety about it.