Am I out of order if I report this to child services?

[Em94]

For background my job involves safeguarding and if this was discovered through work I would 100% be reporting but in this instance I’m not sure it’s my place.

I have bought something off Facebook market place and been to collect today, upon arrival no one answered the door so I waited in the car and tried again.
a boy aged 9/10 answered the door & i asked if there was an adult home as I was here to collect something. The boy got the item for me let me look at it and told me his parents were in bed. (I didn’t go inside, this was all at the doorstep).
he was dirty, unclean toe nails, the house smelt and you could see the clutter everywhere. No curtains open.
I can’t stop thinking about it and unsure whether it’s my place to do anything

It makes no difference to the need to involve ss whether the true narrative is the first, the last or somewhere in between. A quick call to ss and ss would immediately have access to their notes. They'd be able to see if this is the first time anything like this has been reported or if the family have needed frequent support to maintain basic hygeine and supervision for the child. This would likely make a difference to how they approached it but should make no difference to how you approach it. OP saw something that suggests a neglectful household. Who cares why?! It's ss job to judge that not your's. Your only job is to bring it to the attention of ss. Stop giving a shit about parents who right now aren't doing enough for their child for whatever reason and start giving a shit about the child who's affected by it

Good work, OP. Sometimes you need to trust your gut. Could be absolutely fine, but there could be something foul going on.

I'd block the person you messaged on Facebook - I think it'd say 'message from Facebook user' or something like that.

This.

There might be a reason the parents wee in bed - night shift, illness etc. But added in with the other concerns I would report. If everything's OK then no harm done

It's always best to think "but what if I'm right?" rather than "but what if I'm wrong?" with regards to safeguarding.

Sadly I indirectly know someone who was seen by several witnesses/recorded on CCTV, slapping, punching and kicking her very young children in public (it happens all the time at home by all accounts) and she still has them all in her possession. This is despite many other people raising concerns with social services over many years about the abuse. She allows them to be around their waste of space dads (different ones) who aren't allowed access because they also abused them, and also all the new men in her life abuse them because she allows it, she swears at them as though its per norm, she is an outright disgusting parent. Yet still they are with her. Makes my blood boil.
So I very much doubt your report will result in anything.

It doesn't look great, but you only saw a very brief snapshot of their life/conditions. I guess it's better to do it to be on the safe side. Unless it was in the early morning you would not expect both adults to be 'in bed'. That's a red flag. It could also be that they have a very loving home but are just messy/ parents have health issues. I used to visit clients who were decent people and capable parents but their homes were a bit (sometimes a lot) messy/ cluttered. I've known young lads of 9/10 that will avoid batheing and get grubby when playing. I think there is a difference between that and neglect/abuse. But I guess that's for SS to decide.

Mandatory reporting is not currently a thing in the UK.

@Em94 I think even if you were wrong, its better to do something than not do something. The amount of times I times people come forward after a child is lost to neglect and say they saw x,y or z but never reported it always shocks me.

This could have been me back in October. I had the worst sickness bug I’ve ever had in my life. My house was an absolute bomb-site, the kids couldn’t get to school (spoke to school about this and they were fine), none of us were dressed, I just about managed to put food together for them, etc… I wasn’t in bed though as I couldn’t leave them on their own. But the state of the house and the state of the way we all looked for those couple of days wasn’t great.

So any outsider who happened to come across us would most likely have been concerned and I guess I looked like someone who SS would be interested in at the time. I would have been more than happy to show them that it wasn’t a typical everyday occurrence for us though.

Quoted the wrong post. Was meant to quote the one about a sickness bug/covid.

Yes, report please

Good on you Op! You did the right thing and as someone who was abused and neglected I appreciate you for it.

Agree cluttered but clean, fair enough. Cluttered and stinking so much OP could smell it from outside, not so much.

Also it’s January, if you let your child play in the garden barefoot (digging their feet in mud to have visible dirt under their toenails?!), at this time of year I’d say you were a pretty neglectful parent tbh.

It’s doubtful a child of that age would do that anyway and most likely the child’s toe nails were filthy due to not having a bath or shower for quite some time together with them not being trimmed which is basic hygiene.

Obviously a very disorganised household anyway if they arranged for the OP to collect something and stayed in bed Kid not at school and left to answer door and parent not up to deal with them or homeschooling if that’s the case. Together with the messy, smelly house, OP was absolutely right to report!

Hopefully her report will get services involved to investigate this child’s well-being.

He's 10 now but yes as other person posted no issue with him answering the door to postman etc.

I see no problem. What the original poster could do is go back ring the bell and ask if she left her glasses/book/keys/whatever on the doorstep/wall and get another look? Then report if it still seems dodgy or more dodgy?

No based on dirty nails, messy house, not being at school (perhaps sick) parents in bed (maybe also sick) I wouldn't report. You've probably caused a family who is all over the place with illness or stress about messy house even more work and stress.

I bet lots of people who would report are the kinds who close their doors to shouting and screaming in the street where help could actually be needed.

And ss believe it or not are quite adept at assessing whether something is a one off lapse because of unavoidable illness or something the child is being persistently exposed to to a level that's going to impact on their development and wellbeing.

My dd is adopted . I've seen the profiles of children who've escalated to the point of removal. Most of these poor kid's backgrounds would make a reasonable person's skin crawl. SS really aren't evil baby snatchers as many believe. They have to bend over backwards to prove that removal is in the child's interest and gain nothing from doing this unless it's warranted.

Yes I would report that to social services.
Not because the child answered the door and his parents were in bed. At 10ish it's fine for parents to have a nap while their child is awake in the house. But from everything you have said about his appearance, the smell and the clutter I think you should report.

I don't think cluttered is the same as neglect.

I know this isn't the point but I have never met anyone with a cluttered but clean house.

Clean in a general way sure, dishes done, laundry away, but people I know with lots of stuff rarely on my experience are dusting it all and wiping it down.

My asthma always acts up in homes with a lot of clutter.

Did your house smell bad enough after a few days of not doing housework, that it could be noticed by someone on the doorstep though? If you’re ill, you wouldn’t be cooking either.

A few days of unwashed crockery doesn’t make the whole house stink (only know this from DDs bedroom!)

If your job involves safeguarding you will be familiar with the phrase that safeguarding is everyone's responsibility. 100% needs reporting.

This is the same type of response as "you don't know the situation, it could be mental health issues" rubbish.
Sometimes it's just because people are arses and excuses just enable it.

Don't go back and talk to them as suggested by others. It isn't your place and as you haven't met the parents, you don't know if they are violent.

Do report this to social services. You already have the contacts through your work so use them. In no circumstances can I see any reason why the state of the house and the child being filthy being normal.

Please report as soon as possible.

Yes definately report it. Even if I was completely ill, i’d drag myself to the door rather than let a young child open it to a stranger. The fact he was not in school, unclean and the state of the house would make me very concerned too. Please report and you have done no harm.

If you are in a job such as education it is your duty to report it even if it is nothing to do with work. I think you could be in trouble for gross misconduct if you don't and it could affect your job.

No that is not true at all. She will have a duty of care in her job role but she can't get in to trouble because she didn't report a potential safeguarding from buying something of facebook marketplace.

I would have reported because better safe than sorry of course, and also your gut feeling was that something wasn’t right.

On the other hand I’m now dragging my ass out of bed to tidy up a bit before dd gets taken into care.