To point out the practicalities to ds

[KeepTryingToGetItRight]

Ds is turning 17 this year. He wants a car. He seems to think that he will be able to start driving with 800 quid. I've told him that yes, a car will be achieveable with 800 quid, but the insurance...oh dear, the insurance! Then there's the lessons, the theory, the practical, etc!

He thinks I'm just trying to rain on his parade, and I'm just too practical. But surely he needs to understand that he can't just pitch up at a dearlership or someone's house and drive off!

My very mentioning this (as gently as possible) is me just being negative!

I want him to learn to drive, it would make my life considerably easier, we live fairly rurally. I have a vague idea that the insurance is going to cost about £200 a month. I don't have that. He will be earning enough with his apprenticeship, which starts in April, but he has to pay me some board and lodge, and contribute to the council tax.

It's all quite depressing really, I hate to be so practical, but someone needs to be!

Am I just being mean?!

I’d support him learning to drive and passing his test. By that time he may have realised insurance is a thing. But even if he then doesn’t get a car, and needs to take refresher lessons when he does start to drive, knowing he doesn’t have to take a test is a big worry off his mind

Is it possible to pass a test without practice, in between lessons? It's been a very long time since I took mine (after half a dozen lessons, and my test cost £27.50!)

Let him take his lessons. Even if he passes and then realised he can’t afford a car and insurance etc he will hold a valid license for when it’s needed in the future.

It entirely depends on how much of a natural driver he is. Some people need over a hundred hours practice, others are fine with 10 lessons and no extras.

It depends a lot on the teacher, the student and the time it takes but yes.

It's the time now to let him found out things for himself, make a few mistakes, waste some money. Better he learns now, and less work for you.

You might need to double your insurance estimates. Tell him to find insurers.....

You could add him to your insurance and take him out as a learner driver. There have been a few threads about it recently and I was astounded to learn it’s quite cheep to do that (at least in comparison to insurance once he has passed). I assume it’s the difference in risk between him being a supervised learner and an unsupervised new driver.

Tell him to crack on. Make it clear you will not be funding it.

@owlsinthedaylight I have a motability car, so can't add anyone under 25, unfortunately.

I'm tempted to go with the 'crack and let him learn from hid mistakes suggestions!

Ask him to find a car within his budget, then do a dummy quote for insurance using the reg.

Also, it’s not unusual to need 30 hours of lessons to pass, possibly even more.

Sit him down and Tot up these plus theory and practical costs. And a monthly allowance for petrol and maintenance.

Plus used car prices have gone through the roof since covid. An £800 car three years ago will cost £1500
now.

an £800 car is more than likely going to be a total money pit.

In this day and age sadly he won't find a car for £800.
If he does it will be incredibly unreliable. Maybe tell him to go online and look at 2nd hand car prices, I looked last year and a car as old as ours (2009) was about £4k, we paid that for ours 6 years ago.
He also needs to think about other costs, MOT, service, interim bills for when it inevitably breaks down.

@KeepTryingToGetItRight what 19Lottie says, the pair of you go on Autotrader and you can narrow down the search criteria really well with that. Then take the registration and put it in CompareTheMarket car insurance site and get him to see what the actual figures are for that car.

You can change the reg without having to re-enter all the details. We did this 2 years ago when debating getting Ds a car but he was off to uni so wouldn't be driving it but we went through it all anyway just so he could see the figures.

Also look up petrol prices and get him to work out how much it will cost to run the car too.

Learning to drive for Ds was £68 for every 2 hour lesson and all the driving instructors here offer the 2 hours, no one offers 1. You can learn a lot of the theory of how a car works, understand the clutch, gears etc by watching youtube and lots of mock tests to see which lane to be in, how to handle meeting situations. DVLA recommend around 45 hours of lessons from an instructor. Having seen a lot of these mocks tests with Ds, some of them clearly need a lot more.

45 hours?? Bloody hell, times have definitely changed!

I would say that 45 hours could be a strong possibility.

20-30 years ago people could pass with 10-15 hours, not anymore.

Make sure he understands that a £800 car might be a 1,4L which will cost him £6000 a year to insure Vs a £4000 1,0 L car which might be more like £2000-3000 a year. I'd say he needs to pass his test then you can discuss getting a car.

I'd be supportive by helping him find an instructor and paying towards his lessons. At least he's keen.

Lessons are so expensive! My older dd learnt during and after lockdown and her lessons were £27 an hour. Now with the next dd they are £36.

I agree with others. 2nd hand car prices have gone though the roof over the last 2 years.

He may not listen, but if you want a recent example, these were the costs for my son to get on the road at 18.

£33 each driving lesson. He around 30 lessons - £990.
I also spent £120 adding him to my insurance for extra practice.
Theory and practical test - £85
10 year old Citroen C1 (38k and one owner) £5000
Insurance for the year, with a black box £1990
Breakdown cover £98

Didn’t need to spend £5k on a car, but I didn’t want the worry of him driving something that would constantly break down or only last a short time. His mate spent £900 on a banger that lasted him 3 months before he needed a new engine - total waste of money.

This is not a stealth boast by the way - just the reality of being a young driver and the costs.

Like everyone else, I would be encouraging him to have the lessons and get his theory, then practical tests done.
Then he starts saving again for the insurance.

You are quite right that is the most expensive part, but it still makes a huge amount of sense to pass his test now and then save up for the car ownership and most importantly insurance as and when he can afford it.
It will also be cheaper a year or two on from when he passes.

@Lucyccfc68 that's really helpful, thank you. As is everyone else's input. I'm glad I'm not being unreasonable.
I might just show him this thread!

My DS pays £70 each week for a two hour lesson. We live a long way from the nearest test centre, so now he is approaching being able to apply for a test. he is doing more lessons in that vicinity.

He has failed the theory a few times and they are about £25 each time (not failed it by much, only a few percent each time).

I'm doing lessons at the moment. It's £70 for a 90 minute lesson. I've been told it's a minimum of 40 hours on average to pass the new test. If changed significantly since the change in 2017.

So yes, he is being naive. But try to see it in a different way. If he has £800, a lot of 17 year olds would just fritter it away on nothing/their social life. My 16 year old has spent all her Christmas money on absolutely nothing and wouldn't even consider something as practical as a car, even if your son hasn't thought of the practicalities. Why not suggest putting it in a saving account (is this his gov child trust fund money?) Specifically towards him learning to drive, and help add to it. It must be a bit frustrating to know he has to pay rent out of a pittance that is apprenticeship money, with little spare time to earn any more for lessons.

Ha! It took me 4x that in lessons and tests.

Has he seen the cost of insurance for young men these days? It's insane.

My husbands just done his test, overall cost about 1300 pounds, insurance was quoted as 300 a month for a 30 year old man.

Id get him to check, you can pre check insurance costs

DS actually passed after 5 lessons -- but he's been obsessed with driving since he was a toddler, spends his free time on racedriving simulators, and had driven our family car many hundred miles (accompanied) by that point.

DD ... looks likely to take longer.