TW: Domestic abuse/murder/child death

[Merryoldgoat]

Norwich deaths: Girls died of knife wounds https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-68079209

I’m so sick of reading about these men. How can we stop this? I feel utterly ruined by it all.

Yes, as soon as there is something like this you feel bad for thinking "I bet he did it" but your instinct is usually correct.

I hope the wording of the article is changed as time moves on. It's very much skirting around the issue at the moment, saying only that his death isn't classed as suspicious, but maybe that's just because it's breaking now.

How can we stop this?

We can't. There will always be people who are mentally unwell or just plain nasty, even in the most perfect society. Humans are flawed.

What we could do to help reduce incidents like this is to massively improve mental health services in the UK and offer more support to those who are dealing with difficult situations such as family break-ups.

We could target those who are themselves victims of abuse, and watch for worrying behaviours in young people and get to them early before they grow up and do something horrible.

We won't, because it's too expensive and society tends to look on these people as "evil", which might make them feel good but does bugger all to address the issue.

Another family annihilator. A man.

We need to not shy away from naming male violence against women and children.

The reporting of this story has been really weird. It was obvious from day 1 who was responsible and they already reported the knife wounds so how is this breaking news today? Just come out and say family annihilation.

It brings up so many emotions - both rational and irrational.

That poor women and her poor children.

Imagine that the answer to ANY problem is killing your (ex?) partner and children? These fucking fragile nasty abusive men.

I think you're being a bit unfair here. Other reporting said that he rang 999 HIMSELF to say that he was having mental problems and was worried of what he'd do and then the bodies were found over an hour later after a member of the public called the police. Whilst there are plenty of cases where men are the issue, this looks much more like an example of someone having a mental health crisis and not getting the help they needed with tragic consequences.

@TheSeasonalNameChange

I hope you’re right but I’m reserving judgement.

The Times is reporting that today. He rang the police and asked for help, nobody was sent out.

Police have reported themselves to watchdogs.

Man had called them an hour earlier in distress saying he was confused. He'd had some sort of episode a few months ago too.

Media couldn't report cause of death until confirmed by authorities. Post mortem was done on the girls today, the adults were done earlier in the week.

Lots of restrictions on TV reporting on cases like this.

TV news journalists know a lot more about it than they're allowed to report.

I just feel for their mother who has lost her daughters and her sister. Can't imagine what she's going through.

finding it difficult to unpick this news story, what's the relationship between the two girls and adults? Is it parents and their children? They are being described as "family members", but that the woman was just visiting? Presumably details have been deliberately left out

No, the details of the relationship have been reported. Days ago.

He had a breakdown ffs. He was not in a normal mental state.
Not excusing any DV, male orxfemale, but this male bashing hysteria isxrathercdafy.
Ifxa womaan had done this while having a MH crisis you'd all be dripping with sympathy

The woman was their aunt

Honestly this was a man that had a mental health crisis, realised he wasn't right and was on the verge of doing something, called the police for help, who said it wasn't their responsibility. We don't know what caused that but there has been no mention of domestic abuse. Let's not throw accusations around without full facts.

The police had a duty of care, they should have sent an ambulance and a police car and done a welfare check. If they fear for a life that is what they do. The police failed which is why they reported themselves.

Yes but it wasn't. It was a man and it's always a man, breakdown or not. Women don't have a MH related episode and murder their families. It's always men.

I'm curious to know what people's thoughts are on police not being sent? Hard to say without knowing exactly what was said on the call. Police get a lot of MH calls every day and rarely do any of them go on to murder within the hour. Should police be attending MH crises?

This is a really horrific incident and I feel terrible for the victims and the children's mother. Poor, poor woman.

Don't trot out the faux naivette, @Boke. Of course women have murdered their children during a MH breakdown.
Yes, men are more likely to be violent, but women don't shit flowers during a crisis, they can be extemely violent too, just as men are not always violent

I get that it was a mental health crisis but why knife the women and girls in your life? I think murder and madness and misogyny are not mutually exclusive.

Such a tragedy that the police didn't respond. That poor mother left behind.

Why was he allowed contact with his DCs when he was known to be unsafe?

mental health services are in absolute crisis

It is definitely not always a man -in this particular example of a mental health breakdown it can also often be women

and actually yes there is something we could do to prevent this, the Nottingham Murders and the death of two year old Bronson. All had moments where police, mental health services etc could and should have stepped in but didn’t. Better procedures are needed and mental health provisions in this country

Also I'm fairly sure Norwich has the worst mental health services in England but correct me if I'm wrong.

@Boke is right though - of course women can also be violent and murder people, the point is men do it like 100 times more often!!
I think men are in crisis tbh- women have adapted their roles and mindset to todays world but (not all obvy) men still expect to dominate in whatever way and when things don't go as they planned they can't get over it and their mental health goes tits up, often blaming the woman and wanting to punish the woman by killing their kids.
Maybe not the case here specifically but that's so often the case, and so often the threat in DV situations too.
Men (not all but sadly too many) need to evolve!

And your evidence for the 100 times more?
Please don't throw stats in for effect, particularly if not backed up

Neither the police or an ambulance would have arrived within the hour. We need to blame the governments lack of proper funding emergency service's, including proper mental health support.