To think this is ridiculous and refuse to do it?

[goddamnandblast]

I work in a small cafe on the high street, we have tables and chairs but not a lot of indoor space so most of our seating is outside.

Because people in the town will steal these if they are left outside overnight we have to load all of the seating and stuff into and out of the shop when we open and close. Tbh it's already a massive pain in the arse because we are very busy getting the place ready in the morning and it's one more job that takes time we don't have. 99% of the time we are lone working at this point so we can't get on with things while someone else does it. Chairs stack together and are quite heavy, tables are heavy too but all this is just about doable at the moment.

Cue me coming in today to a load of extra stuff that the managers have decided to add to the outside area - essentially it's a bunch of wooden pillars with rope between them to section off our seating area from the street. These wooden pillars are huge (about 6in square and 4ft high) with thick, solid marble bases. They easily weigh 20kg+ each. If you imagine one of the big weight plates on a barbell in the gym the bases are about this size. I'm pretty strong but these pillars take the absolute piss and I can barely lift them because they are so ungainly, there's no safe way to lift or hold them and we are just supposed to get on with it and load them in and out every day with everything else, which will take even more time we don't have, and potentially risk damaging ourselves doing so.

Aibu to think this is ridiculous and refuse to put them out? I already have sciatica which is very painful and makes lifting difficult but even if I didn't I'm just so fucking furious that we are expected to do this. This is not a place staffed by strong, burly men, we are staffed entirely by petite women, some as young as 16.

Are the town folk likely to nick the pillars??

Yes, I would refuse to do this type of lifting too - it's not so much the weight alone, it's the weight combined with the size of the things. These are the sorts of things you're meant to have a training course to learn how to lift safely (potentially with equipment to help you!) and you shouldn't be doing that sort of lifting-and-shifting if you have a back problem.

What's the rest of the H&S like?
Do you have a first aider? Fire evac training? Us the coffee machine pressure tested regularly?

Reason I'm asking is to establish are they generally okay and this is a one off or are they an accident waiting to happen (to one of their staff).

YANBU! A firm ‘no thank you, it’s not safe’ should suffice.

I'd absolutely refuse to do this. Keep it simple and factual, this is not a safe manual handling activity and a risk assessment involving the staff has not been completed.

Refer the owners to the HSE's own guidelines. If they don't abide, it'll be the HSE who will seek prosecution of the owners. I'd add that in this light you wish to see the risk assessments for all manual handling activities in the cafe in relation to your role.

Just say no and/or hand in your notice, citing this as the reason.

What has that got to do with anything?

F

@Synergies probably not but they did steal one of our one heavy marble tables which was accidentally left outside once so who knows! There are a lot of pubs/clubs in town nearby and people do weird things when drunk. We've had our windows smashed before too.

@SquirrelsAssemble actually to be fair they do have all of those things. They are normally pretty good at being on top of H&S stuff but they seem to have a blind spot where the outside seating is concerned.

I will keep all of my concerns very factual and professional, I want them to take me seriously not just dismiss me as someone having a tantrum because I can't be bothered. I'm genuinely concerned about the possibility of injure with these things. If my estimation of the weight is correct it means each one is roughly 1/3rd of my body weight. For our younger, more petite staff it represents almost half. That is an unreasonable amount to be expected to lift on a daily basis with no additional training, equipment or risk assessment.

Do you think a small café is likely to pay her sick leave? 🙄

I don't.

Just say it’s too heavy and you can’t move it.

I agree. Just say you can't do it. They can't exactly force you

It does not sound safe at all!

Can you get some scales and a helpful friend and weigh them?
There are legal limits:

www.hands-lifting.co.uk/what-is-the-maximum-weight-a-person-can-lift-at-work/#:~:text=According%20to%20legal%20manual%20handling,on%20a%20number%20of%20factors.

Sack trolley is what you need.

Please point out to them that if you or anyone else gets an injury they, management, will be sued. And you will win because they are basically driving a coach and horses through health and safety legislation. They are completely insane expecting you to do this, it's heavy manual labour every day! Bonkers.

Ask them for a copy of the Risk Assessment they must have carried out. Spoiler alert: it does not exist.

Look up the pillars online (assuming they aren't made to order) and find out exactly what they do weigh. If they are heavy you would think they would be on wheels.

My kids worked in coffee shops (part of a chain) and I was shocked at how badly they were treated. Area managers were lazy and took advantage. I would have resigned but my kids seemed to have some sort of loyalty (mixed with hatred) to the company. My kids only did it as part time jobs thankfully. One of my kids worked a 75 hour weeks more than once and was unable to take breaks as the cafe was so understaffed. All the tips were taken by a 'manager' who only worked 4 hours a week in the store. The image of the chain is very local yummy mummy "we are all a big happy family" but the reality was brutal. Obviously it was my kids choice not to resign but still.

@Doxxy that's horrible but unfortunately it does not surprise me at all 😞

Good idea on looking them up by the way. I couldn't find the exact ones as I think they were custom made (and very expensive!) but I found something similar. It's a parasol base and it weighs 30kg!

30kg for the base alone? If they expect shop staff to handle these items they should be on wheels. (They could also put tags on the items in case they are stolen.)

Show them this diagram (which they should already be familiar with if they are usually up to speed on their HS stuff)

This is now a two person job or they need to provide you with a mechanical means of moving/lifting them.

Tell the manager that you're worried about how it would look for them if someone hurts themselves. Without a risk assessments, manual handling training, and sticking to the manual handling guidance (so for these you need two people, or to not lift them, or to have some lifting equipment, as they exceed safe weights) then the law will say they are 100% to blame and liable to pay any compensation if there is an injury. If they still say they don't care, then I'd just say you tried but they're too heavy for you. And look for another job where they actually care that employees might seriously injure themselves

You absolutely should not be lifting anything. A proper risk assessment should have been carried out and a full health and safety policy should be available for you to use. How's about reporting them.....

https://www.hse.gov.uk/contact/tell-us-about-a-health-and-safety-issue.htm

I'll try again. Wouldn't a small hand truck/sack trolley like this be suitable? You can easily move very heavy items with it. You only have to tilt the item slightly to slide the "shelf" of the trolley under it, then tip back and go. You can get folding ones that store flat in a small space. There are narrower ones that can easily go through doorways, this is quite a heavy duty one but you get the idea.

It will be environmental health at the council, rather than the HSE.

But if they are overall generally abiding to their duties, they may respond better than you hoped if you point out what should be obvious, but maybe isn't to them. You're actually doing them a favour because as PP said, they're currently very much liable if one of you incurs an injury, it's a relatively easy problem to fix.

EHOs can be a useful tool though & more than once I've been 'passing and popped in' when an employee has whistle-blown on an issue. Depends on the officer how capable they are of being discreet though.