To retrain as doctor in 40s! Read specifics!

[UsuallyIwouldsayUABUBut]

I just searched for a thread on this as I know there have been some before, and indeed that I myself have even commented and voted to say that the poster is being VVVV U. It does seem mad to embark on a course that won't finish until you are practically 50 and then even given we are all going to work til our 70s, that's only 20 years, i.e. a half career.

However.... due to personal circumstances, I am living overseas in a country in which it is possible to study medicine more cheaply that the UK, and it's still very well regarded. We will be here for at least the 6 years required to study (timeline isn't a problem). I could probably get the foundation years in too, or at least a couple of them.

I don't enjoy the job I trained to do. I'm currently doing it from home but I won't progress this way. I don't think it will be particularly easy to achieve the level I was at after we move back to UK (current plan). And anyway, I don't enjoy it.

I'm not under financial pressure, I would like to have a career I can be proud of though. DH would prefer me to work but there's no particular need to make more money. I haven't discussed this with him yet.

I did science A-levels and got good grades (a zillion years ago, I remember nothing). There is a single test to do to apply called an IMAT, I assume I'd have to study.

Thoughts? Until this idea popped into my head I would have thought this was mad, but it kind of seems like I've been given the runway to do it without the usual issues that people cite.

I can kinda understand your thinking @UsuallyIwouldsayUABUBut - I had similar thoughts in my 40s, having not found my career niche. I came from a family of medics and am married to one and railed against it at school then regretted it.

I have to say IMO you'd be absolutely nuts - my OH is early 50s, a Sr Consultant, and still does a lot of nights on call. He loves his job but I can really see it taking its toll now whereas a few years ago it was ok, he looks grey and shattered after nights. In his speciality they retire or scale right down around 60/early 60's as he says they feel less sharp and able. I don't think many consultants work up to 70 - maybe a bit of lucrative private work post-NHS but that takes years to build up so I don't think you'd realistically have time for that.

I can't even imagine how I would cope physically at this age - as someone mentioned up thread peri-meno and all!

@Amara123 i actually have considered it but firstly it doesn't appeal as much as medicine and secondly as far as I know there wouldn't be a possibility to study whilst I'm living overseas and have this window of time. The medicine route here seems specifically international, English speaking etc.

@hashisucks really useful insight thank you. What do you do instead? Do you ever regret not doing it when you were tempted? It must have been quite off putting in a way to be married to someone who would be so much further down the professional track than you.

Nah, I know a lot of doctors and they are all pretty miserable right now, with all that's happening in the NHS. I work in academia and am happy enough!

Interesting. I’ve never heard of this. Which Trust are they linked with?

To be pedantic, the title Paramedic is a protected title so only HCPC registered Paramedics should be using it. It’s misleading to refer to her as a Paramedic, when she isn’t one.

@ISpyNoPlumPie it's a suitable alternative for some people as it is people oriented like what she said she liked. It's a caring therapeutic role.
It generally has no night shifts, not that I've ever heard of.

And she has considered it, I just added it as it wasn't one of the roles suggested in posts before.

Relax. Not suggesting it's easy.

Yes but it doesn’t mean that you’re responsible for the nurses practice. Any acts or omissions are on their registration.

I remember as a student being warned that if a dr prescribed the wrong dose and I administered it I’d be in trouble as I was the one who’d given it. So even in that scenario the dr isn’t responsible for the nurse.

My former GP was a late convert. She was bloody brilliant and I miss her now she's retired.

If you want to do it, have the aptitude and can get a place, I can't think of any good reason not to.

Apologies it was just a terminology that would have been recognisable to other people. I don't know what her official title is but there are fully qualified paramedics that work for the St John's ambulance who previously worked for the NHS so the scheme I referred too does include paramedics even if that isn't my sister's exact title. One of her colleagues is featured in the BBC series ambulance. I don't know what her job title is for sure but she doesn't know my job title either!

It's a nationwide scheme

Go for it! I would take the opportunity to study medicine in a heartbeat. If you feel passionate about it and your current life circumstances can accommodate it, then why not? Your length of career shouldn't be a determining factor. Good luck 🩺

I agree doctors aren’t paid enough. I’d forgotten about PAs as thankfully our trust don’t use them. So doctors at our hospital are only responsible for their own actions because they’re not responsible for the nurses who are responsible for themselves. If you’re saying that there’s a feeling that the buck stops with you I can totally understand that, but that’s responsibility for the patients not other staff. Sorry, I don’t mean to be pedantic but I think there’s a difference.

If you never want to feel relaxed ever again... Go for it!

I'm not sure everyone feels this way but it can be getting home at night constantly panicking... Did I do that right, will they be ok, did I remember to do this, that and the other, to follow something important up, will I get sued (you will end up getting complaints, end up in court, or giving a statement to a solicitor at some point pretty much guaranteed even if you are good at your job)

You will get abuse and shouted at.

In a lot of jobs if you make a mistake it's not the end of the world, but in medicine it can literally be the end of someone's world. Even a decimal point in the wrong place can have disastrous consequences.

If your kids school or nursery phones to say they're poorly, you can't just go and pick them up... there are patients waiting who want full, undistracted attention (in the UK they may have been waiting months to see you! Forget sports days etc...

I think when you're younger it's easier to relax and go with the flow. As you get older and wiser, the paranoia and worry can be a lot worse.

But honestly, go for it 😂

My husband is a hospital consultant, he’s in his forties. He’s been covering the junior doctor strikes lately and it’s knackering, the training part is relentless with incredibly long hours. I know I wouldn’t have the stamina. If you end up in the NHS it’s difficult at the moment, hence the strikes.

As for having an 18mo, is your partner willing to totally pick up the slack there? My husband’s choice of career has completely affected mine, anything I do has to be super kid friendly and flexible. I run my own business as a result and that’s tough during the holidays even with a nine year old. He has zero flexibility and antisocial hours. I joke I’ve practically been a single mother for large parts of my kids upbringing.

You’ve got to have a very supportive partner and really, really want to do it.

... the patient interaction is what is drawing me. And doing something practical. Research based or something which is rooted in science specifically doesn't appeal quite as much.

So why not nursing, sonography, operating theatre technician, HCA, radiography, paramedic scientist or physiotherapy? So many clinical careers, why medicine specifically ?

I’m a doctor and love my job but didn’t have children until I’d been qualified for a while. There’s plenty of ways to develop a fulfilling career with a good work life balance but even so the first 4-5 years will involve shift work, long hours and lots of study which will be tough with kids.

I’d be more inclined to consider nursing if I were you. It’s got a shorter training program, more flexibility and is more family friendly but also has the potential to go a long way career wise. The advanced nurse practitioner roles available these days have a great deal of responsibility and involve working in all sorts of interesting areas. If I was mid-forties with young kids I’d do that rather than medicine.

Sorry if this is harsh OP but I think you need a reality check here. You say yourself you have criticised pps on another similar post before. It seems like you've landed on this idea and run with it - you say you don't have the "usual issues" but you didn't even mention in the OP that you had young children?! Surely the central overriding concern here?

In your specific situation I would definitely go for it. I’m 65 now, with a serious illness so things are too late for me, but I really regret thinking I was too old to retrain when I was in my 40’s. Looking back I wasn’t and it would have been great to have given it a go.
I was an accountant, who longed to be in some sort of medical role!

In that situation, the nurse and the doctor would both be responsible for their parts in this error.

But I did mean the responsibility towards the patient rather than being responsible for someone else’s practice. The nurse comes to me with a clinical problem and I am responsible for managing it regardless of experience or pay scales. This was particularly pertinent when I was much less experienced and much lower paid than my nursing colleagues. I may then escalate to a senior but I bear the burden of responsibility for deciding what to do about that critically unwell patient. I accept that in theory that is what I had trained to do but it didn’t feel like it in the first weeks/months/year. If I’m honest, I don’t care about the pay, I do care about that lack of support and horrendous working conditions - for the whole healthcare workforce.

Pursuing medicine in this country is not worth it.
I'm 10 years post-graduation earning ~£45k for average 30 hours a week including antisocial hours, nights etc
I spend ~£1.5k a year to be a doctor - GMC fees, royal college, indemnity
I've got publications, had international posters, and letters after my name but it means jack all on a day to day basis
Managers who know the square root of sweet FA overrule constantly- but of course when things go wrong it's you that gets asked why
Every day is doing more with less
It's 11pm and I'm up writing up research work that I don't get paid for but I need to progress
There's no way you can meet your 'competencies' unless you put in your own free time
I've recently looked into retraining- I thought about air traffic control and tech with some of my experience
I'm trying to work out ways to make my current path sustainable - trying to work out what other 'hats' I can wear
I can't do my current job for another 30 years.

@Nolla move overseas to NZ or Aus?

For the poster who made the comment that it’s “a young and unencumbered person’s degree” I would wholeheartedly agree. I’m not a medic but dd, aged 22 is a 4th year med student. It is tough and relentless with endless exams. Thankfully she adores it, but as an extremely bright and energetic young woman, the pressure and the workload are still overwhelming at times.

Contrary to the rest of this thread OP I think you're in a good position to do it. Your husbands earns enough for you to not work so presumably can pay for childcare, cleaners etc . Leaving you free to study.

But - big but - your primary motivation seems to be 'prestige'. You hate your current job, your salary isn't really needed to support the family. You've just followed your husband with the Big Job. You seem... unfulfilled. And needing to prove your worth, show yourself what you're capable of.

With that in mind, I don't think studying medicine is the best option. It's the idea of medicine and not the field itself that seems to attract you.

You have so many people IRL to ask for advice I don't think strangers on MN need to tell you the realities of being a doctor. But we can relate to your feelings of wanting to achieve.

Why don't you consider becoming a PA?

I've not read the whole thread but from a quick glance I can see you've already had some sensible advice about the practicalities of undergraduate and postgraduate training. Realistically, even if everything goes completely according to plan and you were able to get into medical school right away and then walk into a training scheme back in the UK, it's going to be over a decade before you'd be qualified as a GP and in excess of 15 years before you'd be a Consultant in most hospital specialities. And realistically, given the current competition for training places in many specialties it may well not all go according to plan. So you'd be potentially starting your first Consultant post at about the age that most of us are planning for retirement.
I don't think you've said what your DH does but what are his retirement plans? You'd be potentially just about becoming an established Consultant at the time he is thinking of winding down if he is a similar age to you. Would you really want to be devoting so much time to your career when you'd otherwise perhaps be looking forward to easing up and enjoying retirement together?
Don't be fooled into thinking that it gets significantly easier once you are a Consultant. The difficulties are different to being a junior doctor but I wouldn't say less, especially as you get more senior and take on additional responsibilities. I'd say the last decade of my career was the most stressful in many ways. Oh, and those Consultants who just do private work you mentioned upthread are a very rare breed, especially outside London, and those that are in that position have generally built up their private practice over many years of working early mornings, late evenings and weekends on top of their NHS commitments. Private work can be extremely lucrative but you need to build a reputation which takes time. And you'd have considerably fewer years than most in which to do that.
Another thing that people also assume is that it gets easier once your children are at school. Anything but in my experience. It's comparatively easy to manage childcare when it's nursery or a childminder but school hours are much more restrictive, not to mention those long school holidays. Plus older children have hobbies, school events that they really want you to be at and so on - both the logistics and the emotional strain were probably hardest for me in the primary school years but secondary brings it's own issues too.
Medicine is a rewarding career in many ways but it is a hard task master, physically, mentally and emotionally. Whilst it can give a lot it also takes a lot. And not just from you, but from your family. I completely understand why you want to get away from an unfulfilling career but beware of jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

3 things:

1. London is often the most competitive deanery for this reason. 2)Shifts start at phenomenally anti-social hours and at weekends getting there on public transport is a PITA and can easily take over an our
2. Have you seen house prices in London ?