To retrain as doctor in 40s! Read specifics!

[UsuallyIwouldsayUABUBut]

I just searched for a thread on this as I know there have been some before, and indeed that I myself have even commented and voted to say that the poster is being VVVV U. It does seem mad to embark on a course that won't finish until you are practically 50 and then even given we are all going to work til our 70s, that's only 20 years, i.e. a half career.

However.... due to personal circumstances, I am living overseas in a country in which it is possible to study medicine more cheaply that the UK, and it's still very well regarded. We will be here for at least the 6 years required to study (timeline isn't a problem). I could probably get the foundation years in too, or at least a couple of them.

I don't enjoy the job I trained to do. I'm currently doing it from home but I won't progress this way. I don't think it will be particularly easy to achieve the level I was at after we move back to UK (current plan). And anyway, I don't enjoy it.

I'm not under financial pressure, I would like to have a career I can be proud of though. DH would prefer me to work but there's no particular need to make more money. I haven't discussed this with him yet.

I did science A-levels and got good grades (a zillion years ago, I remember nothing). There is a single test to do to apply called an IMAT, I assume I'd have to study.

Thoughts? Until this idea popped into my head I would have thought this was mad, but it kind of seems like I've been given the runway to do it without the usual issues that people cite.

@MotherOfVizslas thank you so much. Really interesting to hear from someone who has done it at a similar time of life. Not quite so late. What point are you at now, and what is your plan from here?

I'm currently an F1 in the UK, so first year after graduating.

My plan is as follows:

1. Survive Foundation training (touch and go at the moment)
2. Try to get on a training program at the end of F2 (by no means guaranteed as in the UK competition ratios are just constantly rising😣)
3. Go part time

@MotherOfVizslas how/why are you responsible for people earning 10k more than you?

The only thing unreasonable about this is that you don’t see 20 years as a large chunk of your life. It might be “only” 20 years but if it’s 20 that you’ve spent doing something you love then you’re mad not to do it really.

I remember in one of my first medical jobs, one of the nurses I worked with saw my payslip. She was shocked. I was paid a lot less than her but of course the hierarchy dictates that she comes to me when something is wrong. That’s just the way it is at the beginning but it does get a little better in time.

@MotherOfVizslas are there particular training courses that you are targetting, for example because they are a bit less competitive in your area, or because it's a shorter route to consultant, or other reason? Or are you following your heart no matter the timelines?

Noted that you want to go part time ASAP! Do you think that it is the stress/demands of the job that drives that, or age, or family commitments?

How are you navigating the problems mentioned on this thread about having to move far away?

It's through the St Johns ambulance. They have ambulances equivalent to NHS ambulances and answer 999 calls alongside the regular paramedics but you can do it alongside a regular job volunteering for shifts that fits your working hours. They can't do everything the fully qualified ambulance staff can do but they can handle about 90% of the patients.

@UsuallyIwouldsayUABUBut OP having read your updates, I am afraid I don't think medicine is the best career choice for you.
you will be a 'junior' doctor for a good few years, and there is nothing prestigious about that. you would very low down the food chain in the hospital. you will get told off, shouted at, pushed around and if you are unlucky, face physical violence. no one will appreciate you, you will be one of many tired, overworked zombies. I don't think in your 40s, and given your motivations you would be able to cope with that. if you survive your junior years, I can categorically tell you there is nothing prestigious about being a gp. Hospital specialties look down on you. patients don't think of you as a real doctor and are much more rude/abusive than they are to hospital doctors. and the home visits! the things you see! I know amazing gps who love their work but they have a very different mindset to you.

also the sheer amount of poo/vomit/grotty wounds/blood/mucus/smell you have to deal with is pretty awful. there is no getting away from it or avoiding it. even after you qualify and are in gpland.

@therealcookiemonster thank you for your honest feedback, lots to reflect on. Are you a doctor yourself? You seem to have some close knowledge of the situation!

If you're looking for prestige in Medicine, stay far away from the UK. The profession has been denigrated to the point of almost being meaningless. It's a shame that so many changes are being made that aren't in the interests of patients. Healthcare in the UK is much much worse than it was even 10 years ago and it's awful to see as a clinician and a patient seeking care.

I think in some ways the best outcome of this thread, and of coming up with this idea (again!) would be to finally put it to bed...

If I don't do it now when I have a clear window where the training (the 6 years at the beginning at least) would fit pretty well with my situation, it's cheaper, it woudln't put me under financial strain, etc, and realistically it is not possible to leave it ANY later and still do it, then I am not going to.

I don't know why I keep coming back to it, when in my heart of hearts I don't think it makes any sense to do it. If I could turn back the clock to 18 years old knowing everything I know now, I would definitely do it.

I mean, do it if you want but it’s a long slog and you won’t make consultant for about 15 years. If it were me, I’d go for nursing or one of the Allied Health Professions. You’ll be qualified in under 5 years (3 for uni and maybe a year prior if you need to do an access course)

I don’t think is necessarily a barrier and today is probably not the best day to ask me, but I’m exhausted after being called in at night. It’s a different type of tiredness - when your babies wake you, you get up obviously and sort them out but you don’t have to engage your brain in the way you do when you treat sick patients.

also you would have to do some element of hospital medicine (unless the GP route is different where you are) and nights on call are brutal. Im not sure I could face that again tbh.

have you considered nursing? Not that their training is easy, but it’s shorter and there are huge opportunities to become a specialist nurse in an area that interests you. You’d still have the crappy but whilst you’re training and newly qualified but certainly the QoL seems better for them.

I know you seem to have your heart & soul set against it, but if your passion is helping women with fertility a specialist nurse / midwife role might be worth considering.

Once you had gained appropriate post grad qualifications; independent prescribing, scanning and a relevant masters (or PhD) you could potentially set up your own private practice. Or look into nurse consultant posts with a major teaching hospital.

Well I’ve stated my case! On balance I wouldn’t recommend it but that’s me. Why not just do it? Throw everything at one application and see what happens. If you don’t get accepted, there we go, it’s done. If you do get accepted into medical school, have a long, hard think, and then make the next decision.

I don’t think there is any harm in applying, but I do think there is a high chance that it won’t meet your need or match your expectations.

yes, 10+ years in the NHS. doing dual training in Anaesthesia and intensive care medicine. don't get me wrong, I love my job. but it is brutal. I see my friends who have children struggle and miss out on family time. it certainly doesn't feel prestigious. I love caring for other human beings and it is a real privilege.

Well Google Physician Associates for starters...

But in a nutshell, because doctors are on a different pay scale to everybody else, we get royally screwed in our early careers. I was the lowest paid employee in the hospital on Christmas Day!

I'm relatively lucky in that my number one choice is one of the less competitive specialties.

I intend to follow a path I find interesting, but not to the expense of my family. They come first. I'd rather stay where I am geographically and locum/take a year out.

At the end of the day, a job is just a job no matter how much you love it.

Going to throw this out there.

Have you thought about clinical psychology?

It's patient facing, important, worthwhile and offers the chance of a career that you can mould.

Do it. Some doctors practise into their 80s. And even if you only practise for 20 years iyou can make a good contribution. This will keep your brain fine tuned and fill your days with something absolutely worthwhile.

Are you a clinical psychologist?? That’s about 6/7 years training with a psychology undergrad. Also hugely competitive and stressful and no doctor prestige (if you care - and the OP does).

This is true! I worked with one once. He was AWFUL!! Incredibly dangerous. We spent a lot of time mopping up his mistakes. Most doctors will not work beyond their 60’s for lots of good reasons - like everyone else.

I did it, and always advise against it on threads like this. Probably not at all, but definitely not with young children. If your experience is anything like mine, it will break your marriage, your family, and maybe also you.

@ISpyNoPlumPie all of those things are true of Medicine and even more so.
Not saying it's drastically easier, but there are aspects that are a little easier.

Yes - so in what way is it a suitable alternative if the OP was deterred by some of the challenging aspects of medical training? It’s not particularly an “easier” option, plus from OPs posts she is interested in being a doctor not any other allied healthcare role.