To think some women bond over leaving someone out ?

[Spinning101]

I was out for dinner this weekend with a group of DH’s friends & their wives - one of the women kept bringing up the times she’d been out with another of the wives. It started to get a bit awkward as it basically blocked me out of their conversation as I hadn’t been invited. It wasn’t even relevant to the conversations we had been having - it was just like this woman wanted me to know she was better friends with people there .

This is something I have noticed time and time again in different group situations - it’s like some women thrive on being part of the ‘in crowd’ and making it obvious to other women that they aren’t part of it.

. I totally appreciate that you can’t be best friends with everyone and in a group there will always be people you gel with better but I just find it so rude when people do this !!

Maybe im the problem 😬but has anyone else noticed this ?!

Yes I agree.

I expect there are some men like it too, although men aren’t socialised to think their friendships are the most important thing, so you don’t get some much incentive for this type of behaviour.

Yes I have had this happen to me quite a few times and as much as I truly want to believe in the “sisterhood” which I am lucky enough to enjoy at work atm thanks to brilliant female management, it is not always there when you need it.

I went to a mum’s exercise class set up by primary school mothers and I went along for a trial class and either my face or my body didn’t fit as I was told by one of the alpha mothers, “we have a nice little group going here and not many places” and she wasn’t saying it in a friendly tone either. The message was loud and clear.

The other time it happened was when I moved to a new country as a military wife and some of us met up for a mothers and babies group at someone’s house and walked back the same way to our homes but three of them who were with me deliberately went in the wrong direction so they could carry on gossiping about people I didn’t know.

It was my first meet up. I had been excluded from the conversation all morning and not one person asked “how are you settling in? It was a pretty low moment in a new country tbh as I didn’t know a soul back then. I know it’s irritating to have to backtrack and involve someone new when you are desperate to catch up with friends, but basic manners surely? I’m not describing it well but it was breathtakingly rude. I basically sat in my own with my baby for two hours and walked home alone even though we all lived next to one another on the same street. I’ve never forgotten it and go out of my way to welcome newcomers now.

Yes, it's almost tribal mentality isn't it?!

Yep this happens to me quite often. I don't like it.
I don't like the bitchiness and popularity contests of being friends with groups of women in general can involve.

It's a Mumsnet sin to admit, but I prefer the company of men.

Oh oh oh I would have winked at my DH and gone on a massive flirt fest with her husband. Can't be doing with silly bitches like that.

Yes!

I find this very tricky and sometimes find myself on the wrong side of it - I'm ND and often don't see this kind of thing coming and fail on some of the social tactics stuff.

I've seen the same for my daughter too and have had to encourage her to toughen up a bit and see this stuff for what it is - it seems to start quite early that girls have difficulties with groups of 3 and you end up with victim/aggressor/bystander-who-is-kind-of-lapping-up-being-popular. Maybe boys do too, it's just what I know as my son is too young.

I came across this recently.
Had a weekly coffee catch up in a cafe once a week with a long term friend.
She then started turning up with a neighbour she had known a couple of years.

The woman seemed nice but then every conversation was about she might not of known friend as long as I had but they spend so much time together and were true Besties,yes she used that word.

I wasn't bothered or felt left out its just that the conversation bored me,never got to hear what my friend or her family had been up to it was all about this other woman
I also did lose respect for my friend for letting this happen ,I just thought my god if you spend that much time together why was my one hour hijacked.

Yes I've seen this happen and I wasn't on tbe receiving end of it. It's very strange.

@ChatBFP

Good you're priming your DD here.

If I could advise me when I was younger, I'd have encouraged myself to be more self-reliant and value my time and treat random social groups and interactions with a very light touch....

Enjoy ad-hoc stuff, but the reality is everyone puts themselves first and moves on fairly fast.

Most people in social groups drift away, and aren't in touch in a years time. Ultimately its just partner and family you stick with.

I'm happy where I'm at.

However, I wish I'd put my younger energy quietly making and investing money and doing things specifically benefitting me (definitely had the skillset, and could have capitalised on this).

Instead, I was wasting time navigating awkward social situations, or worrying/overthinking group dynamics where some members were clearly aggressive/holding me in contempt.

I was trying to appease and fit in with some really petty people and situations when I clearly should have been focusing on me.

Women are quite vulnerable to criticism of being "loners" if we have social boundaries and put our peace of mind first. Or criticised for being "quiet".

Like there's something wrong with us if we're not "out there in a female group with our besties".

But I feel low-value interactions with people who don't want us there don't really help us or our self-esteem. And they actually can exacerbate loneliness.

Thanks for posting this; you've put into words exactly what I feel. I wasted so much of my life ( embarrassingly, a good few more years than you did) on worrying about trying to fit in and make myself good enough to be in with the popular gang. I wish I had remained true to myself and accepted the fact that i wasn't odd or weird to enjoy my own company and to stop the people pleasing. I too, wish I had capitalised on my youth and ambition and academic ability rather than squandering years on people who messed me around or treated me badly. Unfortunately, I think I've gone too far the other way now and have become a bit of a recluse who doesn't like any company!

Yep. I've always struggled with this, especially as somebody who struggles with social norms, and I'm in this situation at the moment within a community I'm in. One queen bee has decided that I don't fit in and doesn't want me at things her group is involved in running. I've even had people I've never even met walking off when they've realised who I am, which is a first, all because the 'ring leader' has decided that I'm not the right fit for the group.

I've rolled my eyes at it for the most part whilst staying friendly as usual and saying hi to the key few in the main group who completely blank me (though had a proper cry after the people I'd never met literally turned tail as soon as they confirmed I was Sturnidae), but now the one friend I had locally has backed off significantly and is now being invited to their 'private' activities and is spending a lot of time with this group. I wouldn't mind quite so much if it were just the friend as I can deal with that, I'm a grown up and I get it, but our kids are heavily involved and my child is wondering why she's not seeing her best friend anymore.

Irony is, Queen Bee's little group got a too big and recently imploded. So I'm just leaving them to it. I'll see my friend less often and start working on other connections locally whilst we visit our friends who are less local more frequently.

urgh terrible manners. Even my teens know not to do this. Definitely a pathetic power play by an insecure individual. Would totally lose respect for anyone doing this.

@Sturnidae how horrible for you. Some people never grow up from the playground bully. I get how especially difficult it is when you're shunned by people you've never even had any prior interaction with, as they're only going from what " queen bee" has said. I've had this too, and I don't know why but it hurts the most. It's the unfairness I suppose and the powerlessness you feel from having no right to reply or to set the record straight without looking like a loon with an axe to grind! I hope you find much nicer friends to hang around with.

@purplesmiler I was just all "breezy" about it, very much Mumsnet style. But I did feel awkward enough to start avoiding these mums and their kids (even though my DS wants to play with them in the school yard at pick up) as I don't need this in my life.

Absolutely. There can't be an in group if there's not an out-group! I have no time for these types of people.

Absolutely. But it's not just women, it's people. Men, and children too. It's very common behaviour in a group that is very invested in the idea of the group, but has quite fragile bonds.

Ahh yes, i get it all the time.

I have autism, so i dont feel im vulnerable easy target in sensitive way, more just a little oblivious to social dynamics and can be a little awkward so easy to target as i stick out like a sore thumb.

I couldn't put my finger on it 😂 one to one, it would be fine. Small talk, ask them questions type thing. But the minute they gather i get the back turn and pushed out to the point they wont even let me sit down 😅😅 i kept rehashing the group convos in my head and ruminating like..hmmm what did i do? Haha thinking it must be me 😂😂

Yes unfortunately I have experienced it too. It hurts and is awful. You can tie yourself up in knots wondering why your face doesn't fit, whether you said something out of place, etc etc etc. Also in toxic group situations, I have noticed there is a tendency for people to be sheep and not want to get involved with standing up to divisive behaviour, which just makes the situation worse.

Now I am older, I have realised to cherish those people who really know you and ignore these side-line groups. Often we only come together as we only share similar life stages or a specific interest, rather than actually having a true personal connection, and very often there are not many friends or groups that last over 15 years. When I meet new groups, I am polite and friendly and if I end up developing a deeper connection, I explore that. However, most of the time now, I can't be arsed and prefer spending more time with the friends and family I value instead. Ask yourself, if you were in a horrifying time, who would you surround yourself with?

I've been on the receiving end of this quite a lot. I'm friends with a small groups of mums and we all have children in the same class. We have a WhatsApp group, go out with the kids to the park and soft play but also get together for coffee, occasional dinner out or just a meet up at someone's house.
They have started going out without me now. The last time we went for a coffee they all went to a theme park the day after day but didn't mention the plans at all. It seems odd that with such exciting plans the conversation didn't turn to the following day at any point of the morning. They must have some sort of mutual agreement not to discuss plans like that infront me in case they upset me. However, they don't seem to worry about it upsetting me when they plaster the photos all over social media and I find out about it that way.
I never really know how to react when I find out I've been left out of something else, so I kind of hang around awkwardly next time I see them. I can only think they take some odd thrill from being in the impervious 'inner circle'. If one of them ever got left out of plans there would be tears and trauma, I'm sure!!

its so tough isn’t it !! I always used to want a big friendship group but actually think just one best friend is better !

they have to make sure you get to find out about it someway or else it wouldn't be worthwhile them doing it. they wouldn't get any satisfaction out of it if you never got to find out. such bitches, I wouldn't want to be friends with people like that anyway.

I always think for friends it is quality not quantity that matters.

When I went through the worst period of my life with an unexpected bereavement, I found out who my true friends were, and noticed how many simply disappeared.

It's definitely a thing, like someone else commented I instantly lose respect for people who act in a way that hurts someone else for the sake of it.
With some people it definitely feels like it's intentional.. Strange behaviour once you've left school.