To what extent should you make accommodations for "time blindness"?

[ChedderGorgeous]

If a worker says they have "time blindness", what extent, if any, should you make accommodations for them in the workplace ? For example should they always have a 15 minute grace period for meetings and any agenda items involving them be moved to later in the meeting as a matter of course? Should you not be able to schedule meetings with them which are time critical ? My feeling is that if someone has "time blindness" then they should make changes in their day to day management to accommodate this in order to work as per their contract, rather like someone who gets the train, might get the train before , to ensure they get to work even if there are rail delays . AIBU ?

It's actually not the case that the ADHD person wouldnt be able to be on time to collect the cheque, and I think it's disingenuous to suggest it is.
The motivation to get that money would be high, they would focus on it. Often the inability to get something done is due to low dopamine, if something seems boring the brain switches to something else, until it's too late. It can't focus. Collecting a million pounds would stimulate the brain.
Actually this thread could be really interesting if it wasn't for some people trying to exaggerate and compare time blindness to physical disabilities like paralysis, ridiculing people and accusing people of ableism. It doesn't help the cause.

I have ADHD, my brother has ADHD, my dad has ADHD. ADHDers function well in high pressure environments, when things need to be done NOW, it's obvious what needs to be done, and what needs to be done is exciting.

Some jobs just aren't well suited to the ADHD brain. I would never expect anyone to bend over backwards to accommodate me, I get paid to do a job, I'll find ways to do it to the best of my ability. There a difference between asking for some understanding from your employer and expecting a team to change how they operate entirely in order to accomodate you.

If I really can't function in that role I'd look for something else. In the same way you wouldn't expect a diagnosed socially anxious person to function well in a high pressure sales environment, or someone who failed maths GCSE to function well as an accountant.
Would you expect a company to allow the socially anxious person to not appear at sales events because of their disability, or would you expect them to get a job better suited to them?

I honestly get really narked off with the comparisons that suggest that people without ADHD just magically do everything easily and without any effort, that they are perfectly motivated by what is true and morally correct and not by what is fun or engaging, that they never ever find dull tasks boring or tedious etc. Because it's obviously not true, it contributes to all the "I must have ADHD then" tiktok diagnoses and it contributes to the "just an excuse for being lazy" crowd too. Most of the "boil down a complicated topic into an oversimplistic soundbite, then drill down on the soundbite until it's totally distorted" content on social media drives me crazy TBH. I understand why it appeals to people because it feels validating, but it doesn't help anybody. I also think it can get you stuck in a wallowing position where you're like "It's just too hard, my brain is broken, I wish I had a normal brain" or even feel resentful of others, which isn't helpful, because everyone has a challenge somewhere, nobody is perfectly effective in all areas of life.

But at the same time I do want to explain to people, yes I know everyone loses track of time sometimes, yes I know everyone would rather fuck around on facebook than do work, yes I know everyone has to put effort in to organise themselves and it's a slog of adulthood.

AND I know that some people are genuinely lazy/selfish and maybe some of those people have ADHD. Probably, since it's not like it offers some magic protection from those things.

But I would like people to understand that it is genuinely harder to maintain systems, it is genuinely more energy sapping, there are usually problems with using most of the systems that other people can use successfully to get around these issues, so all the "just set a reminder!" isn't necessarily going to help, it needs a bit more of a creative solution. We are not worthless people or fit only for a casual, low-responsibility job, we have a lot to offer as well. I actually don't think there is really such a thing as NT because everyone has some kind of challenge - I think it is useful to be able to openly talk about and research and learn about what is going on or what really helps in the face of specific challenges, so being able to name them and recognise patterns that are probably caused by the same root issue and might respond to the same adjustments is helpful. My DH is incredibly good at organising and time management, but he finds social interaction absolutely exhausting and would avoid it if he could - as it is, because it's exhausting he tends to try and ration his availability for this.

I mean, OP hasn't said what the job actually is, I would have thought that most jobs involve some aspects of time management, I would never seek out a job where I'm responsible for project management or organising other people because I'd be absolutely awful at this, but ruling out every single job that involves having meetings is silly, and anyway, as I said earlier in the thread, an environment which is very time-bound is often quite a helpful structure (for example, I was frequently late to secondary school, but I was never late to any lessons - because I was already there and everything was timetabled and everyone else was operating to the timetable.)

Also conversely, a punitive approach can sometimes be helpful if it involves bringing consequences closer to the action. You often hear that for children (and adults) with ADHD, punishment is ineffective/harmful/unfairly applied, and this is true but it's usually also because the consequence is too distant from the action.

So for example if an employee with ADHD is routinely late for meetings, everyone is polite about it, and their boss only brings it up at their (e.g. quarterly) appraisal, this is unlikely to make any difference to their behaviour, even if they feel embarrassed or ashamed about it. But if everyone at the meeting is instantly disapproving, or the boss makes it clear on the first instance that this is not acceptable and/or is inconveniencing everyone else or makes the company look bad to a client etc, then the person with ADHD is much more likely to take this on board and remember it for next time (assuming that they actually have the ability to get there on time - if something is getting in the way, then it might just induce a high level of shame). Social approval/expectation is a very high level motivator for basically everyone (except autistic people, if I understand correctly) and this is no different in ADHD, so a combination of "Oh those people are all going to be waiting for me, so I'd better get going!" and this being linked to the actual meeting rather than some vague later time is likely to be more effective. Even more effective would be something at the point where they need to make the action of disengaging with previous task to start moving to the meeting, e.g. a shared office space if that works for others, because then they will see other people getting up to go to a meeting and know to follow them. Virtual workspaces like Slack may also have this benefit if they haven't muted the relevant channel.

Maybe. But the rest of your life might go to shit because all your effort has to go towards this.

I don't think some people realise how utterly debilitating ADHD can be for some of us. I've seriously considered ending my life many times because I couldn't face more decades of living like this. Now I have meds and those times are fewer, but it still gets to me sometimes. I feel so worthless and it's such a struggle to do normal things and I just think, what's the point of me being alive anyway? Family is the only thing keeping me here then tbh.

A hidden disability is a disability regardless and to imply its not is unfair. I have said multiple times people who have adhd shouldn't just be left to be late and that be ok. And with the whole check thing. I have lost out in about £300 due to not being able to cash checks in the 6 months . That was due to adhd. I have racked up massive £100 library fines (I no longer take books out library as I know I'm unable to always bring it back in time.) It's just something I have to do to provent loosing money. Someone dismissing the true problems people face with adhd and expecting to just be allowed to do what u like in ur job because of adhd are not the same thing. I trained to become teacher and was teacher for a few years before having my daughter. I really struggled with being a teacher with my undiagnosed adhd at the time (didn't know anything about adhd just thought i was lazy and just crap at basic things, untill my daughter was diagnosed with autism at 2) I am not teaching now as home as I'm her carer. I doubt I'll be able to go back into teaching . Because it takes so much mental effort and looking after my daughter is as much mental effort as I can just about cope with. It's very hard being undiagnosed adhd as u just belive the worst and then when u find out u actually have a condition that makes these things and its not ur fault is really hard to accept especially when u have people here and in general society who just belives its not that bad /not real or people r just making excuses.

@Elizadomuchly

It's actually not the case that the ADHD person wouldnt be able to be on time to collect the cheque, and I think it's disingenuous to suggest it is.
The motivation to get that money would be high, they would focus on it. Often the inability to get something done is due to low dopamine, if something seems boring the brain switches to something else, until it's too late. It can't focus. Collecting a million pounds would stimulate the brain.
Actually this thread could be really interesting if it wasn't for some people trying to exaggerate and compare time blindness to physical disabilities like paralysis, ridiculing people and accusing people of ableism. It doesn't help the cause.

I completely agree with this (although I think you may be referring to me with the ridiculing people accusation - if so, it was a response to the third deliberately goady post by the same poster).

If something is important enough (stimulating enough), then yes, it is perfectly possible to put techniques into place that will ensure you remember it. However, for many people who suffer with time-blindness due to ADHD, that is a lot of effort and can be exhausting so it isn't necessarily sustainable in the long term without burning out.

But if everyone at the meeting is instantly disapproving, or the boss makes it clear on the first instance that this is not acceptable and/or is inconveniencing everyone else or makes the company look bad to a client etc, then the person with ADHD is much more likely to take this on board and remember it for next time (assuming that they actually have the ability to get there on time - if something is getting in the way, then it might just induce a high level of shame). Social approval/expectation is a very high level motivator for basically everyone (except autistic people, if I understand correctly) and this is no different in ADHD, so a combination of "Oh those people are all going to be waiting for me, so I'd better get going!" and this being linked to the actual meeting rather than some vague later time is likely to be more effective.

OMG I honestly think I would kill myself if this is how I was spoken to. Social expectation is not a motivator for many, and shame definitely isn't. It just makes people hate themselves even more and absolutely dread having to go to work. Anxiety grows, sleep gets affected, and mental health takes a nose dive.

words of wisdom @Elizadomuchly ! I couldn't agree more.

I have a really bad sense of time and am embarrassed thinking back now to my younger years when I was frequently late. I also have a terrible sense of historical time, I could not tell you if the thing I remember was last week or 7 months ago. I now tell people that I really struggle with a sense of time so they don't think I'm am idiot. I check clocks regularly, reminders for everything, I keep a diary of things, have a monthly planner etc. Like @BertieBotts says, you can be NT and have struggles too.

Both my DS and DH have ADHD and I see there is a whole extra layer of planning in everything, it is much trickier of course but we use many different tools for daily tasks. They manage in most circumstances, but only if they play to their strengths. DH has a job that he is very good at, and thankfully it pays well but there are a million jobs he could not do. He would be a disaster for example a waiter as he would just walk in an out of a kitchen forgetting what he came in there for. I am very practical and sociable so do well customer facing however I could not possibly cope with the stress DH deals with every day with negotiating with demanding clients, i can guarantee I would end up on sick leave due to stress. My DS has to get a bus each morning and is always on time, despite the fact that organising for the day is a real struggle for him. He does this the night before, we have colour coded systems for school stuff and different labelled drawers for different sports gear so he doesn't get distracted. He has a checklist for going out the door. There are many jobs that he will not be able to do, and this is something we consider now when choosing subjects. He accepts that it is his responsibility and burden, we would never expect anyone to make allowances like OP describes in the workplace.

Especially for women who already get ridiculed in work far more than men do.

I also bet that women with ADHD put strategies in place and men with ADHD get let off, or have the PA to support them.

Which is EXACTLY why I said "sometimes" and not "this is definitely a great idea and will absolutely work for every single person"

And also if something is getting in the way [of being on time], then it might just induce a high level of shame pointing out it could also be counterproductive.

What I'm thinking is for example, if I decide to study a language at home or start an exercise plan at home, there's about a 99% chance I'll just completely stop doing it after the initial enthusiasm wears off - compared to joining a weekly exercise or language class - where people will definitely miss me if I don't turn up.

If I have to contact friends individually and arrange to see them, I'll probably forget to do it for months. Whereas if there's a regular weekly meet up, I know other people will be there and I'll go along.

Same principle for positive reinforcement, I was just trying not to get jumped on by people saying "Oh god now you think people should be given cookies and a pat on the head for turning up?? How patronising!"

Have you based that on anything whatsoever?
My brother has ADHD, it has caused extreme anxiety. He has struggled in every job he's ever had. Are you saying because he's a man he isn't helping himself so it's his fault? Because all men are the same aren't they!
When will people realise that sexism is harmful both ways.

Also, I didn't put in anything about tone or ridicule. It could be a discreet word.

Just a perspective from someone with ADHD and time blindness - since working 100% remotely I've been completely fine with attending meetings on time etc as I'm never really away from my laptop or phone and I get notifications that the meeting is about to begin 10 mins and 1 min in advance.

However, I still struggle on the rare occasions that I have to physically be at a meeting on time - very easily distracted, even if I'm planning to be 15-20 mins early, the fact that I know I'll be early means that I'm more likely to do "just one more thing" in the vicinity of the meeting (e.g. go to the toilet/pop over to someone nearby to ask them about something/get something printed out) and then end up rushing to the meeting and get in just on time/be slightly late.

I think my problems are that I hyperfocus on whatever task I'm currently engrossed with, and then if I do break focus then I have a high level of distractibility. I also feel self-conscious being seen to do nothing (e.g. just sitting outside of a room), and I'm overly optimistic about how long things will take me. Not a great combination for being early/on time but I really try.

I've definitely got better over the years by placing alarms at 1hr, 30min, 15min, and 1min intervals before meetings and also by reminding myself to NOT DO A SINGLE THING OTHER THAN ATTEND THIS MEETING ON TIME. But this also means that I can't really concentrate on anything other than ATTEND THE MEETING ON TIME for 30-60mins beforehand.

I think in terms of the OP, the colleague (not OP) needs to put in measures to reduce their chances of being late to things like meetings which impact other people (e.g. by talking to an occupational therapist or seeking guidance online). OP can also talk to the colleague on how the strategies are working for them, and support them in finding a solution. But I don't think OP should just accept this person will always be late

I have ADHD and suffer from time blindness. The post from @CaribouCarafe above mine resonates completely.

If I aim to be early, I am tempted to fit in ‘one more thing’ when I get there which will make me late so I have to deliberately not start anything new.

If I have a VERY IMPORTANT MEETING or a flight or a medical appointment, I go into ‘waiting mode’ as others have described so I can’t do anything else, or concentrate on any thing else, for fear of being late.

I absolutely could get somewhere on time for a ‘giant cheque’ as a one-off but the energy needed to do it is not sustainable and could not be applied to every meeting every time.

My failing at work is that I cannot predict how long tasks take to do, until I actually do them, so in order to manage expectations,I am either very vague or communicate a deadline that gives me some headroom - no one minds if something gets done sooner than they expected but it reflects badly on me if it’s late.

There are so many adjustments that I’ve had to make to get by at work to manage my time and I’ve been doing them for 20+ years before I knew about ADHD or time blindness.

As for whoever made the comment that time blindness doesn’t apply when it comes to leaving work on time - my working day finished an hour ago but I’ve been doing ‘one more thing’ and another and another… and I’m still here, so no, it doesn’t work like that.

@Blueroses99 "As for whoever made the comment that time blindness doesn’t apply when it comes to leaving work on time - my working day finished an hour ago but I’ve been doing ‘one more thing’ and another and another… and I’m still here, so no, it doesn’t work like that."

That's totally me as well! My first manager wouldn't pull me up on being slightly late at the beginning of the day because inevitably I'd always more than make up for it in all the additional hours I put in from just hyperfocusing on completing those 'last few' tasks. I'm getting better at boundaries now so getting more of a work-life balance, finally!

My partner has ADHD.
You know what she also has? A series of alarms and reminders that enable her to manage both her time and her responsibilities.

I do not have ADHD but am chronically bad at time keeping, so I have a series of alarms and reminders that enable me to manage both my time and my responsibilities. I also set all my watches and clocks 5 minutes fast as a precaution.

Personally, I wouldn't accommodate "time blindness" because theres more than enough technology to do the work for you.

my working day finished an hour ago but I’ve been doing ‘one more thing’ and another and another… and I’m still here, so no, it doesn’t work like that.

Maybe you ought to get off MN.

I was typing on my phone while my laptop was shutting down. But thanks for your concern.

You don't speak for everyone with ADHD.

Some people are so severely affected that they wouldn't remember to pick up the cheque despite constant prompts and other reminders. DC wouldn't and that's why they have full time 1:1 at school.

It's offensive to suggest it's an exaggeration simply because your family isn't impacted to the same extent.

Wow.

What are your qualifications in neurological disorders?

It depends if the time blindness is being caused by a diagnosed condition. If it’s adhd then it’s not unreasonable to make certain allowances.

🤯😳 whatever next!

A reasonable adjustment would be discussing with them what tools they need to be able to meet the expectations of work and I think it’s helpful to think in terms of ‘what would I do if this was a physical disability’. So for example, if someone uses a wheelchair you would ensure there’s accessible rooms available - you wouldn’t say ‘oh don’t bother coming in’ 😂
So in this case, it’s a discussion about what that person needs to be able to get to meetings on time. Do they need reminders? Do they need any software etc that will help them plan their diary? But the adjustment helps them do the job, it doesn’t give them the option to not do it.

if they have a diagnosis then they can apply to access to work for support - they also do very good packages of coaching and can provide training to managers to help you understand their condition and to think through some of the reasonable adjustment stuff. The key word though is reasonable and they need to be meeting you halfway.

To those saying time blindness isn’t a thing - that I’m afraid is horse poop. It absolutely is and is related to observable neurological differences that impair executive function.

I have it and I am diagnosed with autism and ADHD. It’s a real issue as part of what is likely a diagnosed or undiagnosed disability.

If they’ve declared the time blindness then really you and they should be working together to address it so they can be productive at work. I tend to use all my executive function up at work so my personal life is a car crash. Yes accommodate them but expect them to be putting strategies in place too.

My boss also has ADHD so I expect him to be ten minutes late to a meeting. It doesn’t really bother me that much.