To what extent should you make accommodations for "time blindness"?

[ChedderGorgeous]

If a worker says they have "time blindness", what extent, if any, should you make accommodations for them in the workplace ? For example should they always have a 15 minute grace period for meetings and any agenda items involving them be moved to later in the meeting as a matter of course? Should you not be able to schedule meetings with them which are time critical ? My feeling is that if someone has "time blindness" then they should make changes in their day to day management to accommodate this in order to work as per their contract, rather like someone who gets the train, might get the train before , to ensure they get to work even if there are rail delays . AIBU ?

@TheCompactPussycat
Imagine if there were actually people in the world who were so ignorant that they thought this was how ADHD worked (that it limited people to basic jobs with no responsibility and meant they couldn't respond to an emergency). And then imagine they were so proud of their ignorance that they spouted it on a public chat forum. They'd be an absolute laughing stock and look like a complete idiot

Instead of just ha ha'ing and ridiculing, why not raise awareness instead then?
As to me it's a fair point that they're making, I'm assuming they mean if you were to call out for an emergency or something, the driver would be able to get there on time and not half an hour, two hours late whatever "because time blindness?"

Time blindness is a common and unwanted trait of adhd and autism.

I am time blind. Since I was little, I've had at least one watch on me, I set many alarms, I plan everything backwards so I'll arrive places early because 9 times out of 10 if I don't then I'm late. I rely on people helping me to know how long it's been since something because I cannot judge time, distance, weight. I have to use timers a lot.

It most certainly isn't a fucking tiktok trend. I'm 41 and have had this problem since I was coughed out into the world.

It's serious but completely workable. Anyone not willing to work out a hack is being disrespectful. Some might still cock up despite developing coping strategies. It happens. But it's still on us to work something out.

@Futb0l

I've never yet found a genuinely "time blind" person. They manage to be there on time when it really matters to themselves
Yes exactly this! Can be on time when it suits.

Can we please stop repeating this BS. Your ableism and ignorance is showing.

Perhaps try a little Google before you comment. There are plenty of good quality resources explaining time blindness. I've even helped you out by linking to a video by one of the leading experts on ADHD discussing time blindness. So you didn't even need to do the research yourself.

You might not make yourself look so silly in future with a couple of minutes checking your facts.

My DH struggles with this (and as a result, so does his family), and while not diagnosed, claims to have ADHD in his family. I think as what would be called a ND person these days (although I wish I wasn't so distracted by MN, twitter, etc), it can be hard to understand. If I want to be somewhere on time, I will do my best to lay out a schedule for him.

The other day, we needed to be at a hospital appointment at 9.30 with our son. So I say to him it's a 20 minute drive, but we need to find parking there, and so we want to be there by 9.20. Then, if we want to leave at 9, you know it takes 15 minutes to leave, so you need to start getting ready to leave at 8.45, that means you have to have breakfast by about 8.30. When it comes to it, I see him, going to start breakfast at 8.45 when I'm sitting there with my shoes and coat on. As per, we're pulling into the car park at 9.10, me running with my son over the car park.

What's frustrating is that ND people have to put strategies in place. We have to plan, we have to have alarms and calendars, etc.

All that said, I do recognise my DH is wired differently - he has the hyperfocus thing, which means you can ask him a question, but if he's engrossed in something, he'll ignore you, and I have to gradually get louder or tap in on his shoulder to get his attention.

None- although my understanding that 'time blindness' is a relatively new excuse but usually falls under the umbrella of ADHD symptoms. It's the role of the person who has onsite into knowing this is an issue to start their day earlier. If there is consideration given, then it has to be adhered to- which to me means they'll probably still be late with the new time too. I don't think this is something that should be an employers issue.

But then to accommodate his child surely he would have ensured he had a breakfast to eat on the go? Or gotten up earlier with an alarm? This is not an excuse for anything.

Yeah, I think this is a misunderstanding.

The general pattern goes that adults without these challenges learn to do this whether or not they consciously think about doing it or it just seems natural/obvious to them to inflate the time needed from the absolute journey time as given on google maps/how long it took them to drive to that town once before, and build in time for parking, traffic, contingencies etc.

Whereas people who struggle with time management typically DON'T do this, or they are typically very bad at assuming how long something will take (this is part of the time blindness) and then they get all stressed and flustered and are late frequently etc.

They discover at some point in adulthood that it's what other people do and/or by trial and error that it's what works, but it's very difficult and doesn't come easily to them, so you end up with this perception that "I'm the only one who has to do this, it's easy for everyone else" and/or if you are friends with other ND people and you tell them about your new discovery they find it a genuinely useful, illuminating tip, which cements the idea that other people aren't routinely doing this.

As usual tiktok is only giving a tiny piece of the story, the entire reality is much more complex and nuanced.

My son has 'time blindness' or problems with chronoception. He is an intelligent and considerate young man, but he has no sense of the duration of time, and he gets so caught up in his rituals and interests that he fails to perceive time passing. He also struggles to cope with unstructured time because five minutes feels like five hours.

He is autistic, and he has had these issues since childhood. It is strange because he can time things accurately, he can tell the time perfectly, he is acutely aware if other people are late or early. It is just tome in relation to himself.

He does set alarms, and these work some of the time. I do prompt him, and so do his support workers (he lives in supported accommodation). However, it is something to do with executive functioning/sensory processing/ processing in general (I am no expert), and it is a very real problem for him, and for the people who support him. It also impacts on his ability to find employment and to study effectively. In addition, his movements and processing are also a noticeably slower than most people's movements and processing.

Reasonable adjustments would comprise whatever supports the individual. This could be an agreement to send reminders about tasks to be done, a mentor/prompter. Breaking tasks down into manageable chunks so they can be completed quickly if time is a problem, prompts to break hyperfocus. These are just rough suggestions.

I tend to overestimate the time it will take to do things. This is not time-blindness but it is another example of our variable relationship with the concept of time. My overestimation comes from anxiety and a fear of being late or a desire to get a task that causes me stress over with as quickly as possible. Being aware of our difficulties is the first step to resolving them.

time not tome

I have it and was diagnosed with adhd so it's definitely a real thing. I wouldnt expect anyone to make accommodations day to day as i needed to manage it if I was in a job that it might effect, however the odd time I was late I would hope there was some understanding, I also don't think unless they are going for an adhd assessment (I know first hand waiting lists are years!) I would accommodate it as a stand alone thing!

For me time blindness shows up in 3-4 main ways (but I'm not sure if the fourth is a time blindness thing or a normal human thing)

1. Poor perception of how long things take, usually in the optimistic direction, (Oh that will only take me ten minutes!) leading to not allowing enough time for things. Conversely sometimes it's pessimistic which can cause me to procrastinate on a task that will actually only take 5 minutes.
2. Going into hyperfocus during a particularly engaging task which means that I lose all sense of the outside world/reality, so I look up and it's about 3 hours later than I realised.
3. Everything has its own timeline/time track and they are all loose and don't seem to be fixed to the main one. So unless I keep notes of when it was that I last worked on something, or I can link it to something else (Oh yes, when I spoke to Sharon she was wearing her Christmas earrings, so it was probably December) I will have no idea - once I go past yesterday, two days feels about the same as up to 3-4 weeks, a couple of weeks feels about the same as up to several months, a few months feels about the same as 2-5 years ish. Anything older than this is just "ages ago" or linked to a life period e.g. "when I was at school/before DS2 was born" I have also been known to say "That was yesterday" to DH and he looks confused and says "No, it was this morning/three days ago".
4. Not really being aware of what date/time/day it is without looking it up. (I don't know if this is innate for anybody, is it?)

Forgetting about a meeting is not quite the same skill, it's more organisation or working memory I think. Organisation is the skill of keeping a diary, planner, choosing activities based on how they fit with others, keeping everything needed accessible and organised so it can be found when needed, etc.

Working memory is more about keeping necessary information in mind - this is impaired with ADHD and there's nothing much you can do about it, except externalise it - for example, having a whiteboard with the current focuses or today's task list or important info visible on it, minimising distractions which might take up space in WM and "push out" other important tasks.

Thinking about problems which may occur and accommodations or things which would help with each item.

Poor perception of how long something takes - this could cause issues with accurately reporting or estimating time taken/time needed for tasks. Time tracking software can help here if the job is mostly computer based, so that the person can look back and see how long it took a previous time - it does need to be used correctly, labelled etc. There might need to be some time allocated at the end of the day for example so that the person can go through and tag all entries. There may be some kind of non computer based time tracker possible where the person can just click a button to indicate they are task switching and then at the end of the day they can go through all the entries and label them (but this might cause issues if they forget to click, which is possible).

What may also help is an estimate being given from someone with better time perception, if this is appropriate (e.g. I think time taken is often taken into account in project management, so there will be rough numbers for these things somewhere). In terms of physical presence at meetings, not online meetings, if the person works on a large site then it might be worth them walking around and physically timing how long it takes them to walk between various spaces, including a toilet break. Or the simple thing is as someone else suggested, they should aim to be 5-10 minutes early for each meeting, and/or be given explicit instruction about what they can do if they are early for a meeting. Being early can provoke a sense of anxiety if you aren't sure what to do and are prone to being drawn into accidental hyperfocus e.g. I will just look at my phone while I wait for people. That's why the aim is often to be exactly on time (which, of course, has a high risk of being late!)

Interrupting hyperfocus can be achieved with regular check-ins with the real world e.g. some kind of IM software, reminders, beeping/speaking clock etc. Again there will be some accessibility software, or there might be something built into a PC, which can automatically speak out reminders, or for a physical office there might be some kind of smart alarm or a smartphone app which will do the same thing. The person can activate settings on their phone to automatically silence/louden the phone when entering or leaving certain areas. The downside of this is that hyperfocus (which isn't really something you can switch on and off at will) can produce really good work and be extremely frustrating to be interrupted; interruptions might also be ignored or brushed aside. If you're trying to help someone then it might be an idea to have a conversation about how best to balance keeping track of real time while allowing the hyperfocus to happen sometimes too.

Really good tracking and particularly visual timelines can really help integrate things into a consolidated timeline, rather than a list of dates which is basically just a meaningless jumble of numbers. What can also help here is some kind of software which automatically orders tasks based on a combination of how frequently they should be done, when they were last done, how important they are, whether they are overdue, whether they block other tasks or other people, any important deadlines, etc. I use this for example for housework, and there are apps which will do this for contacts - I'm sure that there must be applicable examples in many jobs. This is veering into organisation and prioritisation, which are also hard for people with ADHD, but I think that this aspect of time management is probably a huge part of what is behind this. A person with ADHD is going to expend an enormous amount of energy if they have to work all these things out manually, which depletes their capacity to perform at other things, so any tools at all which help with this are going to reduce that load and let them use their energy where their strengths lie instead.

Lastly knowing what day/date/time it is - lots of visible clocks, calendars, etc. I find I'm more aware of where I am in the week if I have specific and distinct differences between the days e.g. when I was teaching EFL and I'd be at company A on Monday, company B and C on Tuesday, kids' classes at my workplace on Wednesday, evening class, Thursday off, Friday group class, planning time etc. And because I was constantly using the date by marking off who was present and writing the date I was much more aware of where we are in a month. So if this is something which can be implemented it will help someone be more aware of where they are in time, which might help with the consolidating timelines thing.

BTW, there are research studies showing #1 is a real phenomenon, and I don't know if there is research on #2 but it is a very observable/obvious thing and everyone does it sometimes (it just happens much more frequently for those with ADHD, autism etc)

Number 3 I have never seen anyone explain in the way I experience it, it tends to be explained more like "out of sight out of mind" or incorrect estimation of time which has passed, but all of the explanations felt off to me until I realised about the unconnected timeline kind of thing. It feels very much to me like - if you're watching two TV programmes at the same time, and reading a book, so three different stories/timelines all going on at once in your head, it doesn't matter how long you leave between them, you can pick each one up where you left off. If you get really into one and abandon the other two for a while, it doesn't affect anything in the story because the characters are just in a state of suspended animation until you pick it up again.

I'm ridiculing this poster because they are being purposefully goady.

Time-blindness in people with ADHD often happens because they are so focussed on what is happening now, or what they are doing now (hyperfocus), that they fail to notice the passage of time. In an emergency you are in the 'now'. An emergency isn't something you know you will have to respond to next Wednesday at 10am, or in 45 minutes. That's part of what makes people with ADHD compatible with emergency services work - exactly because they are so focussed on the now.

It's the same reason why many people with ADHD will leave projects with deadlines until the last moment and then do them at break neck speed.

It has been mentioned several times on this thread that there are a high proportion of paramedics with ADHD and yet we are still getting the same old questions about how people with ADHD would respond in an emergency. Very well is the answer.

I don't, no, because that's generally not the nature of jobs. Jobs are there because someone needs something doing, that generally nobody would do for free.

Things need to be done at a certain time and in a certain way, in order for the company to make the money to provide the wages for the staff. When I run a company, I have a choice of who I pay to do the jobs. If I'm faced with a choice of paying someone that can do the job as described, because that's what works best for the business, or not, I'm not going to choose the person that needs another person paying alongside them to do it or turns up late habitually.

Maybe the window cleaner example wasn't helpful, let's say I'm scared of deep water but I really fancy being a lifeguard because I'm great at the shallow water rescues, my focus is amazing, and I'm quick off the mark if an incident occurs. Should I go for the job and then a week into it ask for another lifeguard to be on shift with me just in case there's a deep water incident? No, I shouldn't be a lifeguard. I should pick a job that my skillset is more matched with.

I do run a business and I employ people. I'm also waaay older than social media. I also haven't got a shred of natural aptitude for timekeeping, for cross checking a list, and loads of other things which would now lead me to be diagnosed as ADHD should I choose to go down that route. I have missed flights, would be chronically late and forgetful if unchecked etc but like others have said I am able to prioritise and focus when I want to and I choose to do that instead of asking for allowances.

I have had a wide and varied career but there are certain jobs that I absolutely would not be able to do, or expect anyone to pay me to do because I'd be shit at them. I would also find it demoralising to head into a job every day that I knew I was shit at. So, while I have every empathy with the struggle, it is my responsiblility to know my strengths and weaknesses and accept that I can't be good at everything and make my work and personal life choices accordingly.

No one else should be making allowances for your time blindness. You make your own allowances, predominantly by being early for everything, then when you're late, you're on time. That's what I do as an autistic person.

Encourage person to use reminder aids and to plan to be places a full fifteen minutes early.
Ask if they need reminder calls one hour before important meetings. (Then they set their own timer/bell to go off half an hour later and move to meeting.
I think mostly it is an unvitation to help, offer ideas and put in place systems that keep the person punctual - an invitation to be open and opinionated without feeling rude.

After a while the systems might eliminate the person's time problems altogether.

Yes very high level ones!

And how do you do that when there isn’t enough time between meetings to get to everything early?

Do you always laugh at disabilities?

Would that not have to be their only responsibility?
I'd be quite stressed at being an 'accountabilty buddy' for getting someone else to meetings on time. What if they weren't where they were meant to be when I had to go and collect them? Should I have to chase them down and run the risk if being late myself? Would it be a disciplinary for me if this kept happening? Would I be allowed to say I couldn't do it if it wasn't my actual job?

There are an awful lot of ignorant people out there which this thread had sadly demonstrated.

I often wonder re people who use ‘time blindness’ as an excuse, what happens if and when they have children? Are their children late for school every day, or do they somehow manage it when it’s important? Ditto trains, flights, etc.

A dd had a friend who was almost invariably very late for any social meet-up, inc. restaurant bookings, and ‘couldn’t help it’, but evidently consistently managed to turn up on time for her long-standing job as airline cabin crew.

I feel that this thread has demonstrated that there are people with ADHD/ASD who are willing to accept that it's their responsibility and make the necessary adjustments, and others who would like somebody else to do it for them.

Yes, this is a big issue. I keep meaning to take this up with HR at my work as they constantly put meetings in calendars that are right up against other meetings. HR are the worst for this!

I find it merely irritating, but I can also see from this thread that it might cause someone with ADHD problems. There should always be a gap between meetings, even if it's only 5 minutes.

Obviously if you are scheduling for 20 people you can't look at everyone's calendars but you can if it's for 3 people.