School doesn’t zip kids coats

[Zok]

Hi has anyone noticed from pics that schools share of nursery and reception kids 3-4 year olds doing outdoor activities that staff don’t zip up the kids even in the freezing weather what is the point of the coats then and how to raise the issue with school
there are around 20 kids in nursery but winter is winter was -3 last week

Thirty is a lot for a class, it's more likely to be 20-25.

Thirty is a lot but very very VERY normal (more common than a class of 20 in state, I would have thought..?)

This takes me back to my DCs reception year. In the cloakroom they had a chart showing who could zip their coat up. Our DC was tiny and still wearing age 2 clothes. All physical milestones alluded him for several years after school began. We had OT for him to help. Professionals fell into two different camps - those who think a very prem child can catch up in the toddler years and those who think it might take a bit longer. I’m afraid a chart making you feel there is something you can’t do that many others can is unhelpful. Being helped to zip your coat and praised for having a go is much better. Reception was very focused on things like zipping coats and not so much on cognitive skills. I felt it changed a bit in Y1, no chart and a bit more at ease with individual strengths. He was still the smallest until secondary school.

There's a lot of judgement on this thread.
I have an AC, they have development delays and other issues which will unlikely be diagnosed before they hit school (thanks to cuts to services and long waiting list for the NHS, adopted children don't get to q-jump which is fair enough, but obviously have additional challenges to overcome which can contribute to being behind their peers in lots of aspects).

It's looking very unlikely I will be able to teach them all the skills I will have had when I went to school, a) I wasn't born premature b) Dec born so was amounts one of the oldest in my class c) very pro-active Mum who really valued these skills and very important to note didn't need to work outside of the home because we were of the generation who could afford a large family home on one persons salary so had time to teach me & also the space/garden for lots of activities which help with practical skills & the time to prepare & clear them up d) I'm naturally dexterous/Co-ordinated e) no sensory issues around clothing.

My AC won't have any of the things I had, and I hope her teachers are kind/compassionate with her. In an ideal world they will be able to zip up their coat themselves by then, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Just because your daughter has a condition making it hard for her doesn't mean others can't because parents don't teach them or expect them to do up laces.

This is not something I would except the school to do

How on earth do you think teachers will have the time to individually zip up 30 kids coats? Even if there is a TA, that's still 15 kids each.

Ofsted downgrade settings for doing such things for children. My colleague lost her outstanding for putting wellies on a 2yo.

Children undo their coats, take their hats off, can't be as dextrous with gloves on so they choose not to wear them.

If they're cold outside, they ask for help to zip them up. Help or assistance is always given.

As a lunchtime supervisor/TA on outdoor provision, I had 30 4-5 year olds on my own. School insists on having a coat and wearing it outside, but we can't force them to zip it up and stay zipped. Even in the snow last week there were kids who'd have preferred to be just in a jumper!

We zip/button the whole way up at our preschool. We also have to put gloves, hats, scarves on and it takes ages.
My one major gripe is how parents buy gloves which their darlings can’t put on, so multiply that by at least 8 kids and and am ready to bash my head against a wall, BUY MITS, get warm coats suitable to weather and ones that are easy to put on, as we have some with busted or near busted zips, which is beyond frustrating and label everything!

Kids starting reception should be able to do their own shoes and coats. Basic parenting. Why should schools be responsible for everything?

Try telling that to the primaries round here that are 3-4 form entry and bursting at the seams with 30 kids in each.

No they didn't.

I don't think that's true. Zips can be hard for little fingers to manage. Nurseries don't have to stick to a timetable, like a school does, so there should be time for children to line up, get their coats zipped up and sent out to play.*
You could try to teach your child, but a lot wouldn't be capable at just three.*

Lots of nurseries are free flow now so dc go in and out as they please to the outdoor area. Would be impossible for staff to constantly monitor however a cold child will normally be apparent or they will come and ask. generally though they are running around and get hot quickly

Another early years ta, coats are unzipped and flung about as soon as we get outside, or worn only by the hood to form a cape for flying about the playground. Don't start me on food they can't open, the number of fucking frubes that explode in an arc across the room because they get frustrated trying to open them!

Oh yes I agree!! 5 fingered gloves on a 3yr old ffs. @LolaSmiles made the point upthread that the very same children who have poor independence skills are the ones sent in with the most unsuitable items and I find this to be true. Today a child wet herself, when i helped her change I could barely pull her trousers down. Poor kid couldn't manage, they were so tight. Last week a child had a vest that buttons on the crotch so couldn't go to the toilet without help whereas she would have otherwise. Another had tights under trousers which she couldn't manage and a boy had dungarees. We have 2 adults to 20 children. So when im in the bathroom helping them one by one my colleague is dealing single handedly with 19 children. Same goes for unpeeled oranges or tricky wrapping on lunches.

As for playground, last week a parent was a bit upset her son wasn't wearing a hat. 4 times I had put it on only for him to throw it off and run away. I gave up. In fairness I don't mind her querying at least it gave me the chance to say he had been doing this. Lots of them can't zip up yet, we are working on it but you'd be surprised how many manage to zip down when they feel like it.

@Nyancat oh god the frubes. And those bloody smoothies with paper straws 😩

I raise you Capri suns - especially with the new paper straw. They were hard enough with the original spiky plastic ones 😆

I’m a TA in Aberdeen. I zip a million coats a day.

we encourage independence but no-one is going outside without a zipped coat.

Our old nursery had free-flowing movement inside and out. They asked children to be sent in coats and shoes they could manage themselves to prevent this. They did help children who asked for help but I don't think they should run round zipping everyone up. When my kids were that age I struggled to persuade them into coats even in snow!

Yes, we all know that there are children with conditions that will find these things difficult. Schools should be aware and these particular children can be supported. That is not the children we are talking about here.

Children should be taught age appropriate self care. That includes 3 and 4 year olds being able to do up their own coat. If a zip is too tricky then buy some sticky back velcro and apply it to the fastening. It's not only helpful to staff, it's enormously better for a child's self esteem to be able to do things themself.

Children with conditions that limit their abilities can also be supported by parents providing them with clothing items etc that they can manage wherever possible. My dyspraxic DS had velcro or slip on shoes until he could manage laces.

Tbh I'll be surprised a 3-4 year couldn't zip up own coat. Dd could and all her friends.

…and they can be joined with the shoe manufacturers who make boots with zips up the side (fine) and laces which can be tied and untied, serving no purpose other than to trip the child up.

I work in EYFS. After a few weeks of working on it, we tell the children that they cannot go outside until they have tried to put their coats on. After a good go, we give them appropriate help, eg starting the zip off. But I would expect them to make appropriate progress, as I would in any area. When it snowed last year, every child in my class wore gloves so they could go out and play in the snow. I bought 11 pairs of gloves to facilitate this - some of the best money I spent. I then kept them back for making matching pairs and, yes, glove putting on practise!

I overheard a conversation recently between a Y3 (definitely Y3 because of what she'd learned in school that day) and her mum, involving the girl not wearing a coat outside (average December day, not bitingly cold). The mum's first response was to say 'what are the teachers playing at letting you outside without a coat?!'. It took a lot to bite my tongue and not interject that by Y3 the first responsibility for that lay with the child, not the teacher. Yes a teacher can remind, but we should expect our Y3s to put on a coat for themselves in December!

Having said that, I've taught Reception and did up many coats. I'd absolutely expect my nursery-aged children to have their coats zipped for them. There's usually a marked difference in Reception between the 4 year olds and 5 year olds with things like coat zipping which shows a lot of it is just developmental - even academic little things might struggle at just turned 4 with coats, putting on tights after PE etc.

I volunteer in a school I've never seen staff zip a coat up unless asked for help by the child. And from age 7 they don't even insist they wear coats.

Things have changed since I was a child and my children now adults, were children and children are not being taught basics early in.

They should be able to undo and take off and do up a their coat and take off and put in their shoes and boots.