Does the Ministry of Defence need major investment, to prevent war?

[OnTheAlert]

I just saw the MOD video with Grant Shapps, and to me it sounds like a justification for a huge financial investment to get the UK military up to date? This surprised me a little as I thought the UK army was one of the most advanced in the world tbh?

I do think the best way to avoid war is to be prepared for it, as a deterrent. So that kind of makes sense to me.

If you are from a military background, what is your take on this?

Did he mention that a week or two ago he was on about abolishing the Royal Marines?

No, didn't see that!

Sorry I'm being thick here but what does he think is the best thing for the military then?

I just checked and he questioned the existence of the Marines on January 9th this year.

Grant Shapps has had an interesting and very varied career across a range of the ministries, having made a shaky start - after gaining 5 O levels and an HND - as a photocopier salesman.

I tell you this simply to give some evidence as to why I don't reckon much to his understanding of defence matters.

This surprised me a little as I thought the UK army was one of the most advanced in the world tbh?

Mine is a hollow laugh.

Our army has been cut to the bone. It's awful. And a programme is currently in place to cut the army to only 72,500 by 2025.

We are in a horrible state, defence wise. We don't have enough resource.

The army is being run and manned very poorly now. It's being slowly sold off and gutted by private contractors. It doesn't run much itself anymore.

Bases are deserted at weekends, when in previous years the mess would be full. I've seen messes designed to hold hundreds of troops with only 20 or 30 in them at mealtimes in the week. The state of accommodation is poor in many places, atrocious in some (this has been in the news). Bases can be unkempt and untidy, with peeling signs and litter blowing about (this would never have happened in my parents day!).

I've seen expensive vehicles and equipment, probably worth millions of pounds, wrapped in cling film and rusting away under tarpaulins because there's no proper storage for them. Classrooms and accomodation in 15-year-old portacabins that were only intended to be used for 6 months.

It is a very very far cry from the British military of 30 years ago.

No.

The government needs to be less warmongering. That would help.

"If you want peace, prepare for war"

I do not think it is warmongering to think that the military should be in good shape.

@Flickersy that sounds shockingly bad. I mean, I guess I thought vaguely there had been some budget cuts but had not realised how extreme the situation was.

@OnTheAlert

"I just checked and he questioned the existence of the Marines on January 9th this year."

Can you provide your source please?

It's generally not reported on unless there's a major scandal (like the mouldy housing).

But the long and short of it is that if we had to field a major standing army tomorrow in a crisis, we couldn't. If we started preparing tomorrow, it would take approximately 5 years before we could field anything half decent.

But say that happened and the govt implemented conscription or a major recruitment drive. Even if they did, there's nowhere to house them. The estate has been flogged off piecemeal to fill huge gaps in funding (and certain people's pockets no doubt), or neglected to the extent it would need serious investment before it would be fit for purpose. You'd have to remove the private contractors who run the services PDQ, and the army doesn't have the spare manpower to run it's own messes or maintenance services like it used to.

And who would train all these new recruits? The army is still half decent at training, to be fair, however most of the real combat experience has been lost. There hasn't been a large mobilisation of troops operating on a war footing for some time now (in part that's a good thing, in others not). And thanks to the reduction in personnel what experienced men they did have have largely quit or retired, so the army is now quite junior and most have only theoretical experience of being chucked into a fully-fledged war.

Successive governments, including labour, but particularly with the last two tory offerings, have completely decimated MOD budgets. The Army is on its knees, and despite all these fancy new weapons being developed by private contractors for ££££££££, boots on the ground is still the only way to secure territorial gains.
Our troops are so few that they wouldn't even fill Wembley Stadium, its that bad.

Rent a minister Grant Shapps says something so it must be true. That moron is basically a government bot that they keep putting into jobs that no one else wants. Wasn’t he transport secretary before, and look how well that is going. Anyone who listens to these turds is a fool.

@VeniVidiWeeWee That was another poster who had read that about the Marines, not me.

@OnTheAlert

My apologies. You are correct.

@VickyEadieofThigh

"I just checked and he questioned the existence of the Marines on January 9th this year."

Can you provide your source for this please? The Marines exist. He couldn't deny that.

It was more he was asking the marines to prove why they need to exist.....