Stop a scam or leave well alone

[StopTheGreyness]

My husband runs a computer repair and networking business. Recently he was approached by an existing customer who is in her mid seventies and appears to have all her marbles. She asked him if her could find her a laptop that would be suitable for her and he researched what she needed and ordered it for her. We're waiting for it to be delivered.

Yesterday he was telephoned by her son and asked to delay giving her the laptop as she has been scammed for over £80,000 by a man supposedly from Spain, who claims to have a romantic interest in her. She's never met or even talked to this man as he says he doesn't want to use the phone as his English isn't that great. He approached her through social media. Her son has involved the police and Action Fraud and there's very little they can do about this as she has not lost capacity and she is convinced this man is genuine.

My husband has access to her current computer as he is waiting to transfer the data to the new computer and, having seen the correspondence it is obvious it is a scam. Her son has access to her emails and Facebook (with her permission). He blocked the man on social media but he then started contacting her by email.

My husband could intervene and has come up with an idea of stopping the correspondence between them through technical means but, as she is his customer, his duty is to her and as she is supposedly compos mentis, this would not be right. He cannot discuss her in detail with her son either. However, he does not feel comfortable enabling this man to carry on taking all her money and leaving her penniless.

Would he be unreasonable to do anything other than set up the new computer and give it back to her. Trying to convince her to stop corresponding with this man is out of the question. Everyone close to her that has spoken to her has got nowhere. We feel he cannot do anything, sadly.

And as I've already said, a friend of mine could easily have been scammed out of thousands, but wasn't as she had no money. Even when the guy disappeared from the radar she didn't accept that he was only interested in her because he thought he could get money from her. She most certainly is of sound mind, she simply desperately wanted something she thought he could provide.

Personally I wouldn't fall for a romantic scam in a million years, but I can see how others do, and it doesn't mean they aren't of sound mind, they just convince themselves that this person is different.

@ithinkthatmaybeimdreaming - I get the impression that your friend had actually met her scammer? Being taken in by a smooth talking dissembler isn't quite the same as being taken in by someone you've never met or spoken to.

There have been other people posting on mumsnet about their parents being taken in by romance scammers - the one I particularly remember had booked plane tickets to go get married to a man she'd never laid eyes on!
OP, blocking email addresses is pretty easy to do, I'd send the son some links to relevant how to videos on you tube.

Why does he want to delay the purchase of the laptop, in what way will that be helping protect his mum?

@Grimchmas that's terrible about the women whose mum went out to marry someone they didn't know.

Unfortunately, when you block an email address they just keep setting up new ones.

He wants to delay the purchase of the laptop as it gives him some more time to try to talk her round.

She most certainly hadn't met him. He "said" he lived in another country and wanted to come and visit her (which of course required her to send the funds to him).

You do not have to stop the fraud, but neither do you have to facilitate it.

Refuse the sale of the computer and refund the woman’s money. If that potentially results in monetary loss for you, offer to sell the computer to the son. That moves the ball into the son’s court.

Under what enactment would you sue a business for selling a piece of equipment that is not proscribed by law, in a transaction to which you were not a party?

Your husband is not a doctor, therapist, or the police. Protect this woman!

What would you do for your mum?
Do anything to keep her safe
Stop the scam asap

If my mum got scammed out of £80k, and I told you and proved to you that selling her a computer would enable her to be sed out of more money, and you refused to intervene and sold her the conputer and she lost money… I’d sue you. 😬🤷‍♀️ Best way to recover some of the loss, no point chasing some online scammer, but a computer shop based in UK, with insurance, that knowingly facilitated a scam? That’s a good target for litigation. there’s always one. All you would be doing is wasting your money. You would have 0 grounds. And whether you believe she is of sound mind or not, in the eyes of the law she is.

OP if she has asked him to read her correspondence , can he use this to open up a dialogue with her? “I was a bit concerned about what I saw. I’ve seen this kind of thing before, and so many of them aren’t genuine. Please don’t give money to anyone you’ve never even spoken to.”

perhaps your DH could do a reverse image search, on his own at first, and then with her.

I can't see how the new laptop is crucial to the fraud. Surely the scammer can contact the lady via her existing computer or her mobile phone?

I don't think you understand what compos mentis means. Believing something because you want to believe it, rather than because the evidence supports it, is a very common human error. If everybody who has ever made that error were declared non compos mentis, there simply would not be enough people around with sufficient capacity to run the affairs of the incapacitated.

@fromhellsheartistabatthee

You are correct in that the fraud can still be perpetrated without the OP’s business being involved. But, it does absolve OP of any ethical involvement in the fraud.

For example, if I sold petrol cans to a woman whose lover used them to make (and use) Mototov cocktails, I might not legally be responsible for the subsequent arson, but knowingly selling them to a customer who was acquainted with a pyromaniac would make me irresponsible in the extreme.

My husband has access to her current computer as he is waiting to transfer the data to the new computer and, having seen the correspondence it is obvious it is a scam

I've been thinking about this some more and I think your dh has already been quite intrusive by reading the correspondence. When I've sent my laptops for repair before there's been an unspoken expectation that the IT guys don't open and read my documents, or look at my photos (at most see the file names). I do understand that his intentions were good but I think your dh has been hugely unprofessional here. I'm not a GDPR expert but I've had some limited training; I think your dh has been temporarily a Data Handler and has accessed data for reasons not covered by the service he was paid for, which GDPR forbids I believe.

If I were your dh I'd simply say to the son that this is not your job and he is not your client, and point him again to Action Fraud. The fact that the son already reported it and they didn't take action, speaks volumes.

Tell the son what to do to stop the correspondence.

If her son blocks the scammer's email address, he will create a new one.

Can the son close/cancel the email account linked to the scammer?

I agree that physically you and your DH can't do anything but advice the son on what to do.

The best, most positive thing he can do - in terms of action - is to contact the police (or, more likely, Action Fraud - but my experience with them is that they're absolutely fkn useless) and ask what he's allowed to do in this circumstance. Don't tell them what he's currently planning (ie tell the son how to do it), leave it open-ended and see what they come up with; only prompt them if they don't come up with anything better than that.

OP if your husband wants to broach the subject with the victim he could always tell her an email popped up while he was working on her PC and although he didn't read it, it did concern him because he recognized the email address from researching known scams or similar.

You could also point the son in the direction of scam baiters. YouTube is full of them; most of them take information from viewers and investigate. ScammerPayback is a guilty viewing pleasure of mine but there are more.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC9EjyMN_hx5NdctLBx5X7w

Depending on how far the son is prepared to "bend" the law and the types of contacts your DH has you could also point him in the direction of some of the less ethical hackers. Scammers will use the same email address to scam dozens of victims. If the son can get into the scammers inbox he could show his poor mum what is really going on.

Unless the person has been officially deemed to lack capacity, or if they do have capacity, will themselves ask the police to act, there’s nothing they can do. The law takes the view that you are free to throw your money away however you wish.

OP, I’m another who’d be very glad if anyone with the knowhow would put a stop to the bastard(s). I do have some experience of this - an elderly neighbour was scammed out of over £100k and simply wouldn’t believe anyone, inc us, who told her they were heartless criminals. They were ‘so nice!’ on the phone (it was all done over the phone).

Her adult dcs did eventually put a stop to it, by installing ‘trusted numbers only’ on her phone.

I’ve already explained in my later posts that the lady concerned asked him to look at the correspondence. My DH is on the spectrum (mildly) he has zero interest in people’s private correspondence and it just would not occur to him to read it unless he was asked to.

If the son can get into the scammers inbox he could show his poor mum what is really going on

He could show her a lot of things, including the endless pieces which explain how these people operate, but it doesn't mean she'd take a blind bit of notice

Unfortunately some believe what they want to believe - as we see on here with the silly comments about OP/DH being responsible - but that doesn't automatically mean they lack capacity, and at the end of the day it's not possible to legislate against stupidity

The victim him/herself has to report the crime! Otherwise the police’s hands are tied.
We tried everything to get our neighbour to report her ‘lottery’ scam, but she simply wouldn’t have it that she was being conned by heartless criminals - however ‘lovely and friendly’ they sounded over the phone!
And yes, we did speak to the police about it.

Though having said that, it would have seemed that they were all US or Caribbean based, so the police could have done sod all anyway.

I think you have to do all you can in this situation.

Ask the son to accompany his mother to the shop and then your dh can discuss it with them both saying he's seen this type of scam before and that he can stop the emails. Could that work as a work around?