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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Talking of Golliwogs.. . .. .

208 replies

WinkyWinkola · 18/03/2008 19:35

I was a bit taken aback when I was looking for a dolly for my DD's birthday and I came across this:

{[https://ssl3.lon.gb.securedata.net/rosablue.com/dolls.htm It's the Mimi doll]]

I made an enquiry about the size of the lovely dolls on this site and also about the Mimi doll. I just felt it was a total caricature of the black slave especially when you can get her dress embroidered with Every Day is Wash Day .

The response to my enquiry was:

Mimi doubled as a student and our live-in nanny when we lived in Cape Town in the 80s.

She was very much part of the family when Penelope started to make her dolls. The whole family was still all living under the same roof then and each of us provided a name for at least one of her prototypes. Which is they all take their names after one of us.

Mimi liked the doll then and it while I understand the sensibility in Britain over the "golliwog" image, that is not what it means to us and we would be loathe to discontinue it.

Am I being over sensitive to find this doll offensive and not buy from the site as a result? Their other dolls are lovely.

OP posts:
No1ErmaBombeckfan · 18/03/2008 22:27

You are such an objectionable poster PSCMUM

dittany · 18/03/2008 22:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BritTex · 18/03/2008 22:28

ok, lets go back to the OP's original post and get back on track !

Why does this have to get nasty?

cheesesarnie · 18/03/2008 22:28

no but bullying does!

Desiderata · 18/03/2008 22:29

I have noticed, on my time on MN, that there is a hard-core of posters who literally foam at the mouth whenever the subject of 'racism' is raised.

They are cynical, unpleasant, and hysterical. They will brook no argument. They are right, in a wild-eyed evangelical, rather sinister way, of course. There can be no reasoned debate. If you query them, you are by default, a racist.

I doubt very much whether the world's oppressed would desire their services, and yet still they chunter on.

And on ... and on ..

morningpaper · 18/03/2008 22:30

I am normally quite foam-y with racist issues

This has yet to persuade me though

I don't know why, when the posters were so reasoned and persuasive

Mumcentreplus · 18/03/2008 22:30

It doesn't have to get nasty...but if you are going to express an opinion prepare to be challenged...

dittany · 18/03/2008 22:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PSCMUM · 18/03/2008 22:30

tut tut tutarama.
i find it odd how people get so touchy about things. i think i use much more irreverent language in my day to day life than most of MN...I must remember when i come on here to not do it as many of you seem to find it like seriously insulting, when it is not really meant that way. i feel like your reactions would be approprate if, say, i had been racist to someone on MN. But anyway, different strokes for different folks. I find racism offensive, many of you find me saying the word moron offensive.

morningpaper · 18/03/2008 22:31

The great shame is that hysteria like this means that the next time someone looks at an array of dolls and thinks "Hey maybe I should buy a non-white doll for a change!" they will probably recoil in terror at the thought of Doing The Wrong Thing and just buy another blonde-haired white-doll.

Which is a great shame

PSCMUM · 18/03/2008 22:32

it is a great shame. but also very unlikely. i don't think anyone on this thread is that thick. though some people are a bit iffy on their understanding of apartheid, i think everyone has grasped that it is not solely the colour of the dolls 'skin', that is offensive.

dittany · 18/03/2008 22:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mumcentreplus · 18/03/2008 22:40

Hysteria?....love these words...you don't agree with someone or something you are hysterical...I buy both dolls..white or black...but not one of them will be wearin a maids outfit

Greyriverside · 18/03/2008 22:42

there is something inherently shameful about being a domestic then? not just a black domestic?

dittany · 18/03/2008 22:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Greyriverside · 18/03/2008 22:56

Hey! I watched "Upstairs Downstairs" so I know that in the PAST servants in this country were also badly treated and had little or no choice, but I guess that doesn't count.

Mumcentreplus · 18/03/2008 23:00

Grey it's not about the outfit...it's about the contations (sp) me dear...apparently it's the national dress of South African women...nothing wrong with domestics my mother was a cleaner for many years while she was in college...

dittany · 18/03/2008 23:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Greyriverside · 18/03/2008 23:09

Joking aside (I'd hoped to raise a smile for using 'upstairs downstairs as my authoritative source) I think that we have gone so far in avoiding racism that we see it everywhere. I hate those forms which ask me which ethnic group I belong to. They shouldn't care and if they don't know they certainly can't treat me unfairly.

Chequers · 19/03/2008 09:33

Message withdrawn

ALMummy · 19/03/2008 09:47

I cant understand this at all. Would it be more acceptable to ignore all races except for white when making dolls? This doll is clearly not a golliwog. It is a black doll based on someone the maker knew. Maybe I am being simplistic but thats just how I see it. If I looked at this website that particular doll may have caught my attention in that it was the only one on there. That in itself is the problem isnt it? Why should a black doll stand out and be such a talking point? There should be more of them thats all, it should not be unusual to see a doll of ANY ethnicity and maybe then we wouldnt throw our hands up in horror and make issues where there are none.

Taweret · 19/03/2008 10:20

"Did you miss the bit where the maker says that the doll is based on a black female servant she had during Apartheid? It's a doll based on a past event".

Er.... yes!

I did, however, read the bit where the maker of the doll said

"Mimi doubled as a student and our live-in nanny when we lived in Cape Town in the 80s.
She was very much part of the family when Penelope started to make her dolls. The whole family was still all living under the same roof then and each of us provided a name for at least one of her prototypes. Which is they all take their names after one of us".

A nanny is not a servant.

You are looking for racism where there isn't any.

Kitti · 19/03/2008 12:30

Very expensive doll but I don't feel it's racist. Like to idea of donating the profits to an AIDS organisation - click on the link at the start of this thread and vote now! I had a gollywog as a child and I picked out a black baby doll which my grandparents were abit miffed about. I loved them both. My gollywog in particular was my favourite until Sindy came along. I'm upset that people get upset about them - now that they are just Golly's I don't see the problem and I miss the Robertson's golly's so much.

cheesesarnie · 19/03/2008 14:30

i emailed the website as was interested in seing if they had any boy dolls.i said id heard about the website on mn.he replied saying they used to have a boy doll(ds would love one)and that he heard about our 'debate' he sent me a copy of the email hed sent to the op and said maybe other posters may like to see it.personally i think he sounds like a very nice person and not racist what so ever!!
heres the message .

I was still wondering what might come of your inquiry when earlier this evening I noticed that our server was inundated with visits.

"Mimi", it turns out, is now a "celebrity cloth doll" and the subject of much debate, some of it considered and thoughtful and some it rather flippantly judgmental as a great deal of internet chat can be.

We have invested a great deal of our personal life in what we make and in our mom-and-pop enterprise and it I must acknowledge that it is awkward to see it the subject of such consideration. Perhaps I should have given that little doll another name, and not that of the young woman we all missed so much when we left that home, never to return.

Yes, the work we do is very personal. Mimi is my history and I will not forget her. Period. And as for the girl who makes the dolls, Penelope, I still remember her walking alone down the centre of the High Street in Grahamstown in the Eastern Cape holding a single wreath and wearing her academic gown. She was walking alone because the law in South Africa at the time held that if another joined her it would be considered a "riotous assembly". It made her especially vulnerable and on either side of the street were people were shouting and swearing at her. Some spat. She kept on walking and looked straight ahead. She was giving her contribution to a vigil to mark the passing of Steven Biko, the Black Consciousness leader who had died in detention a week before. She was something else, Penelope. Never suffered fools and never looked the other way. I was lucky enough that she allowed me to move in with her a week later and we have been together ever since, more or less 30 years. But I would not have the courage to ask her to stop making her dolls.

I am reminded of the remarkable speech that the US Presidential candidate, Barack Obama, gave earlier today in Philadelphia. He was addressing the very issue that has exercised your chat group this evening: race. Here is a salient quote:

"In the end, then, what is called for is nothing more, and nothing less, than what all the world's great religions demand - that we do unto others as we would have them do unto us. Let us be our brother's keeper, Scripture tells us. Let us be our sister's keeper. Let us find that common stake we all have in one another, and let our politics reflect that spirit as well."

I am content that I do not feel I need to further prove Rosablue's anti-apartheid credentials to you or anyone else. I am secure because I know that those days are over. Thankfully that enemy has to some respect been slain.

Funny thing is, I am not sure that we have actually sold any Mimi dolls from our website. They only one I have ever sold personally was in our little shop and the customer was black. And by the way, the "Luca" doll was only discontinued because it was just too boring. Shucks!

Best wishes

Luca (@ Rosablue)

ALMummy · 19/03/2008 14:41

Thanks for showing us that Email cheesesarnie. Lots to think about in there.