To think my daughter isn’t going to get an education?

[SENwoes]

Ok this is long but I’ll keep it as brief as possible. DD 13, diagnosed ASD and I strongly believe has ADHD, and either PDA or ODD (but I’ll never know about either of those as there’s no diagnostic pathway in my area).

Primary was ok - she started to need a lot of support once she got into year 5 which the school gave her in the form of one to one sessions with the ELSA who was brilliant. And then lockdowns happened so the rest of year 5, and a lot of year 6 just didn’t happen.

Secondary was ok for the first couple of terms of year 7, and then it all started to go very wrong, I believe she couldn’t mask beyond that point. Starting truanting lessons, refusing to do anything teachers asked of her, very rude to staff, disruptive in lessons. Her behaviour at home was absolutely unbearable too, and unbeknown to me at that point she was self harming.

Year 8, more of the same for the first couple of weeks, the school were beyond useless at doing anything to support her and their solution went from putting her in isolation pretty much all the time to just suspend her each time she came in, which wasn’t helpful for me as a single parent trying to work. I could see her behaviour going from bad to worse and so at October half term I made the decision she wasn’t going back to that school. Her behaviour changed instantly for the better and she was far more pleasant to be around at home.

So for the rest of year 8 I tried to get her into another school, we live rurally so options are limited, and basically no one wanted her because of her behaviour record. Did appeals - nothing. Finally found somewhere that would take her which is in another area which has the middle school system so she wouldn’t be able to start until year 9. So she missed pretty much the whole of year 8.

During that time I applied for an EHCP with the help of SENDIAS, but they refused to assess because they said there wasn’t enough evidence, and that her difficulties might have just been circumstantial to her previous school.

So she started her new school in September. She really dialled the bad behaviour up to 11, and after 10 days of having been there she was very close to being kicked out, for encouraging another student to assault a teacher. They decided to put her in the inclusion unit - a small base which only has a few kids in, just for 2 hours per day. The guy that runs it was great and I thought if anyone can get through to her it will be him. But she completely refused to engage, despite being there for many weeks. She was then given the option of choosing one subject to attend and being allowed to attend those classes. But she either truanted them completely or turned up so late it wasn’t worth going, so that was removed as an option. The school then suggested that she go in for 2 hours a day and sit with her head of house, which she point blank refused to do and therefore hasn’t been to school since a couple of weeks before Christmas holidays.

As soon as she was back at school in September her behaviour at home became absolutely vile again, to the point where I ended up in hospital twice due to stress related things, and she was literally making mine and her sister’s life a misery. It got to the point where I phoned SS twice begging them to take her as I literally couldn’t cope. Since she stopped going she has reverted to being relatively nice to be around.

I must say her current school have been great at supporting me and trying to support her compared to her previous school, but the bottom line is that she just isn’t going to cope in a mainstream school. I am being supported by the PFSA and she is really pushing the idea of HE. I realise it would be ideal for the school for her to be off their roll. However I am a single parent with a disability which means that I have very limited energy, and I have two teens with SEN with very high and opposing needs. I am really not well at the moment and barely coping with life. I can’t pretend for a minute that I could home educate her, I realised that in lockdown, she won’t do anything I ask.

In the last year she has been:

1. refused an assessment for an EHCP.

2. doesn’t meet the threshold to be seen by CAHMS.

3. doesn’t meet the threshold for an ADHD assessment.

4. turned down by every school in the area, and that’s when she only had a bad behaviour record from the first school.

It’s just dead end roads and brick walls whichever way I turn. And I’m exhausted. I have no fight left in me anymore. She needs a specialist education but my local council is about to go bankrupt, and they’re just not issuing EHCPs anymore. And even if by some miracle I managed to get one, there aren’t placements for her to go to, from what I understand. Everything is about money and there isn’t any.

I really don’t know where to go from here. I can’t see her going back to the school she’s at and I know from last year no one else will have her, and if they did it would just be the same thing all over again. The knock on effect of all this on me, and her sister…I can’t even put that into words really. For my sanity I’ve been having a few weeks off even thinking about it but I know I have to do something before I start getting fined for her not attending school. But what? To add, I don’t have money to throw at the problem, literally none, I am unable to work at the moment and DD doesn’t have a father.

Also work out what you need to get an EHCP and jump through the hoops to get one. A full school report from both schools, a psychiatrist report, a letter from her councillor, any behavioural specialists. Apply for an EHCP yourself and then appeal if necessary.

@BlingBlingTing yes that’s my feeling, although I don’t know if I’m putting myself through a load of stress for nothing if the LA don’t have any money anymore. I know in my county there were 2000 EHCPs in 2018, now there’s over 5000, and nowhere near enough placements. The PFSA was telling me yesterday about a girl at the school who has an EHCP and the school have said they can’t meet her needs, but the LA are refusing to put her anywhere else. There isn’t anywhere else.

Don’t worry about funding. Focus on getting a watertight EHCP because it can then be enforced.

I do have a children’s disability social worker coming next week so maybe they’ll be able to help me with whatever I need to do next. I’ve been so ill lately that I admit the last few weeks I have gone into ostrich mode a bit, I just needed a break from the stress of it all.

Thanks @Hankunamatata thanks I will try contacting them next week. I need to make a list of all this.

Hi OP, first of all this can be done, do not give up.

1. put in a parental application for the ehcp assessment. If the LA refuse to assess, you need to appeal. Keep track of all dates. The threshold for assessment is very low and from what you've said she meets it.

2. start gathering your evidence. Every email, minutes, report... everything that even so much as alludes to any type of need.

3. use the evidence to show what assessments the LA need to carry out as part of the ehcpa. Eg if you have a report that suggests mental health needs but camhs refuse point out that the LA can't have fully assessed all needs if they don't assess mh therefore they need to pay privately if the commissioned services won't do it.

4. do not agree to home educate. That puts all the burden on you and relieves the la of its duty. They have to provide a full time education (this could be a home tutor for so many hours a week).

5. if you appeal and you have low income, you'll be entitled to legal aid and inde reports can be provided through thst. Also there is a charity whose name I can't remember at thr min that support inde reports for send appeals.

Sossen have a very good helpline you can call and depending on your location you may be able to call in and see someone in person. There's a couple of fbk groups you could join that will be really helpful (not fine in school and educational equality). Both give great advice.

Most sendias services are paid for by the la so aren't always as independent as they should be.

Have a think about if you want social care input as part of the ehcp assessment.

Not true. If you have professional evidence that she cannot cope in school, the local authority has a duty to arrange full time education out of school. Official government guidance is clear that the LA must recognise the fact that there are massive waiting lists for CAMHS and other consultants and should be prepared to accept GP evidence at least initially.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/657995f0254aaa000d050bff/Arranging_education_for_children_who_cannot_attend_school_because_of_health_needs.pdf

@Baileyscream is it Parents in Need you are thinking of?

A child with adhd. or other , their head can’t cope with isolation .
Honestly take your child off the school
Role let her de school then introduce work / learning when she is ready . Her head is frazzled . Education is important but Mental health comes first .

I learned this the hard.
Home education groups offer loads of support and links for resources .
Don’t let the pressure of age rush you . Once you have all healed then go back to learning it’s never to late.

@Baileyscream thank you, I found SENDIAS to be fairly useless last year but they were brilliant 6 years ago when I needed to get my other daughter an EHCP.

What do you mean by the social care input?

Your LA has to comply with the law on carrying out EHCP assessments and issuing EHCPs, and will be funded to do so. If necessary they must arrange placements in neighbouring boroughs and/or independent schools, or else through home tuition.

Please apply again for an EHCP. At this stage you simply have to show that your daughter has or may have SEN, and that she may need help through an EHCP. If they refuse again, appeal - the success rate for parents who appeal is around 98%. IPSEA or SOS SEN can help.

@Milkybarsareonmeeeee I definitely see the appeal of what you’re saying, but the reality is that my health is so bad that I wouldn’t be able to do a lot with her, and she’d be sat on her own on her phone for most of her life. She’s very bright and needs to be doing something.

Will reply in the morning as like you op I'm in a similar situation with my 11yo daughter, it's like living in a black hole, just wanted to reply so I can find this thread tomorrow x

@SENwoes it would be a mistake for both of you. There are available answers you just need to dig in and push for them.

@Anisette I will definitely apply again. I definitely need some help with it, I am an educated person but completely overwhelmed. Is it worth contacting both of those organisations or just one or the other?

@itsalwaysthesame black hole = nail on head! Sleep well x

can you contact your local MP or councillor to get this escalated within the council? My mum did this when we had housing issues when I was young and it helped a lot. Obviously depends how good they are.

An EHCP can include more support, including therapies, than the vast majority of parents could EHEing.

When they assess you can ask for any input that is reasonable so if communication is an issue it's reasonable for salt info to be gathered, sensory/ motor functions OT input, mh CAMHS input. You can also request a social care assessment even though this isn't strictly education. You may need respite or adaptations of some form.

The LA may refuse, if so and you end up appealing the content of the plan (section b (needs), f (provision) or I (placement)) you can ask the tribunal to rule on social care too. It's not as easy to enforce but the LA would have difficulty to go against it. If they don't assess and you include it in your appeal, the tribunal will likely order the LA to assess social care needs.

Any child with a disability is classed as a child in need by virtue of their disability but CIN for disability is often misunderstood even by social workers and that can cause problems. Some families don't want social care involvement and for some it's frightening. It's a personal decision but it's worth considering if you're going through the process.

@Anisette that’s interesting re medical evidence, I will make an appointment with the GP. However I remember from when medical tuition was suggested for my eldest daughter, that it’s just a short term solution until they can go back to school. But I don’t think she’ll ever be able to go back there. So not sure how helpful it would be, if it’s still a short term solution.

This sounds incredibly frustrating for you all. I don't have experience of this myself, but lots of people who do, seem to have given you great advice above. However, I used to work in a LA. It was a different dept but everyone seemed to jump on the odd occasion that we'd receive a letter from an MP. So perhaps you could try contacting your MP?

I've just remembered, too, that my parent had to enlist our MP's help when the LA refused to provide transport to school, and the LA then backed down. That was a very long time ago but also goes to show how MPs can have a positive impact.

Good luck x

So sorry you’re going through all this. My daughter has multiple special needs but also very bright. Everything went to shit when she started secondary school. Had to apply for EHCP myself as school refused. LA declined to assess - went to appeal - won.
The threshold for doing EHCPNA is ‘the child MAY have additional needs’ ‘the child MAY need extra help at school’.
You argue that without the needs assessment, they don’t know what her needs are!

The process of getting an EHCP has taken 20 months so far, should be finalised end of this month with specialist placement. The continuous and ongoing battle has destroyed us. The stress is unbelievable so I completely sympathise.

The LA do have a legal duty to provide a full time education for your daughter. I’ve just had to quote the law for my daughter as she hasn’t had any education for 3 months now. Quote section 19(1) education act 1996.
Tell them this is legally binding.
Call the council number for education and ask who you need to speak to for this.
Dont accept any old scraps they offer - it has to be workable for your daughter.

Apply for DLA too. You could use the money for a ADHD assessment. It really sounds like she has this and it is often comorbid with ASD. Medication could really help her.

Youre not alone doing this battle. Sending strength.

Yes it is, thank you.

Op, here is the link
https://www.parentsinneed.org/about-us/

@Baileyscream I welcome all the support I can get. I have a children with disabilities SW coming next week. I don’t have any fear of SS involvement - when I was going through court to keep DD’s father away from her CAFCASS were amazing and inspired me to train to be a social worker. I did the first year of my degree but that’s when DD1 started to really struggle in school/with life in general so I had to switch courses as I wouldn’t have been able to do the placements in the second year.

s.19 provision has to be whatever is suitable, it can be until provision via an EHCP is in place, and the LGO is clear LAs should consider all evidence and a lack of medical evidence does not negate their duty to ensure DD receives a suitable full-time education without delay.