Tenants taking advantage?

[Applecart12]

I have a rental property and despite them passing all referencing have been a nightmare.

1. They have consistently sub-letted (breaching the contract) the property numerous times to various people and the agent has had to move them along. But they've consistently lied saying they are only temporarily living there or they are family.

1. Breaking things in the property and then claiming it is not them, and not taking responsibility.

1. They all do night shifts - even the new ones they have moved in after the original tenancy agreement and have no consideration when they come back in the middle of the night, stomping up stairs, using the dishwasher, washing machine and blender at any time between 12-6 am. There are currently 4 people living there when the tenancy is for only 2.

1. Rubbish and mess are left at the front of the property and if the foxes do get into overflowing bins they just leave it sitting there.

1. Parties - children running, stomping at 11-1 am.

1. Domestic arguments where the neighbours can hear every word between the two adults

As the landlord I have spoken to them many times, the agent has spoken to them. The neighbours have knocked on their door.

Their 12 month contract ended recently and I was not willing to renew. However, they requested an extension because they said they had found a place and could not move till x-date.

X-date is approaching and they have now said they are still looking. Lies again

Now the question: neighbour this week had to knock on their door to ask for the screaming and running kids to stop and that they should be in bed at 11pm. They also mentioned about the domestic arguments that they could hear.

Tenants duly rang the agent next day complaining that the neighbour was aggressive and that they didn't like them talking about their children.

However, on speaking to said neighbour - they said that the tenant did not look upset when she mentioned the children (smirking and not bothered) but it was only when they mentioned the domestic arguments did their expression change.

How do I navigate this.

Unreasonable = neighbour
Not unreasonable = tenant

So you put the neighbours through your points 3, 5 and 6 when they’d given you ample reason to start the section 8. But you just let your neighbours suffer. Nice. Still, you got your money and didn’t have to live next to it. So happy days, huh?

Scumbags out!

@WagWoofWalkMeeoow @HappiestSleeping I must be very lucky as during my 20 years of being a LL I have only had 1 bad tenant and that was my fault. I didn't do a background check on them.

I will leave a property empty until I find a good tenant.

I have a strict criteria - for a flat 2 working adults no children. Less wear and tear on the property.

For a house I do allow children but still want 2 working professional adults. No sharers.

I had 70+ applicants for a property once and held out until the one who fitted the criteria and passed all the credit checks came along.

I do not use an agent as I don't trust them. I manage them all myself.

Same until recently. I've been a landlord for 24 years and had great tenants. All tenants had been fine until 5 years ago.

I am interested to know how you find a good tenant though? All my challenging tenants appeared outwardly to be great. A mature couple, met all relevant credit references and were known to the agent, and a mother and mature son also meeting all the credit references and outwardly looked fine.

Fortunately, I have an excellent agent. They assisted in getting the most recent nightmare out very quickly. I am lucky as it could have been a protracted court battle otherwise. Even though I had the law on my side, the length of time it takes to get court dates at the moment would have been financially crippling with no rent paid during that time. Also, having them deal with the deposit and all the certifications that a landlord needs these days is very useful.

A pp poster mentioned that a s. 8 would let other landlords know of their past behaviour - is there a register that their names go on? Can't seem to quote caringcaregiver

@AhBiscuits hard copy of how to rent printed from online is OK?

Would you suggest serving both s. 8 and s. 21 concurrently?

Also as pp suggests I don't have the Epc - the agent does so will need to get that from himm

Those poor neighbours. You should have started on getting them out much sooner. Change tenants, change agents. This time be much more careful in choosing tenants.

@Applecart12 you can download the EPC from the government website. I always insist the letting agent sends me a copy of EPC and all the certificates , e.g. gas and electricity. They are very good, used them for years, I trust them but I still want copies.

https://www.gov.uk/find-energy-certificate

Thanks @Daisymay2 I've just contacted the agent for the gas safety certificate

there needs to be a major overhaul of the rental market

for everyone’s sakes

the LL
the tenants
and most certainly… the neighbours

It is appalling this situation has been allowed to fester like this for so long. Meanwhile you haven’t had to endure living there Op

Printed online is fine.

You can certainly serve both notices at once. You only have to give 2 weeks notice for a section 8 and 2 months for a section 21.
Personally I would advise waiting for the section 21 to expire and then issue using the accelerated procedure, N5b.
You only have discretionary grounds for the section 8, rather than mandatory grounds like rent arrears. All it would take is the tenant turning up to court and denying any wrong doing or promising they've changed their ways and you won't get possession. The courts generally side with the tenant.
With section 21 there is no question, if the documents are in order, the court have to award you possession.

It is appalling this situation has been allowed to fester like this for so long. Meanwhile you haven’t had to endure living there Op

⬆️⬆️

This. As a LL you have responsibilities - maintaining the property to a high standard, ensuring tenants are looking after the property and ensuring they aren't causing a nuisance.

Any issues must be nipped it in the bud you cannot allow problems to fester. You can't take the money and run, you can't you turn a blind eye to problems and expect your agent to deal with them. It's not a passive job.

Op, you need to ask yourself are you really cut out to being a LL?

Separately, sounds like the flat has poor sound insulation. Having lived in flats in the past, you have ones where you hear everything and ones where you hear nothing. Hearing appliances, etc does suggest there’s poor sound insulation.

Is it a purpose built flat or a conversion?

You've been very unfair to your neighbours by extending their tenancy. You should have got them out the minute you could. And now you're going to enable them being inflicted on some other poor neighbours by allowing your agent to give them a good reference???

And I agree with a previous poster, there needs to be a major overhaul of legislation around rentals. LLs need to be made far more responsible for their tenants' behaviour. As it is, far too many just don't care as long as the rent drops into their account every month. At least you've been making some effort to sort this out.

I hope you've got landlord insurance OP?

Because if you're facing a major battle, unpaid rent and the real possibility they'll trash the place out of spite you're going to need it

I would wager that the Op has not fully complied with the conditions of any such insurance (unlikely she has in place though) - so i doubt she will get coverage

I do have landlord's insurance.

I have all the certificates now and the form's filled out.

Have also just spoken to the agent and he seems to think that even if I issue today it won't be effective till the rent due date? Does anyone know if it is the case? Ie. Their rent is due 20 but even if I issue today on 14, the notice would run to 20 March anyway

When you say issue, what do you mean?
The rent due date is irrelevant to serving notices.

Your tenancy agreement should have a section entitled Notices. Read that to make sure you're clear on how to serve documents and the date they will be deemed served.

I do have landlord's insurance

Thank god for that; as said I suspect you're going to need it

BTW a worthwhile forum for advice is landlordzone.co.uk - you'll get accurate information and it avoids the "all landlords are bastards" posters who inevitably turn up on here

will only cover the OP is she has adhered with all conditions of the policy

Do you think the OP sounds like a LL that will have complied with all the conditions of their LL insurance given she seems to have no idea of anything relating to the responsibilities of being a LL?

Save yourself the time and energy and just deal with an eviction specialist, rather than your agent. You may end up losing hundreds of pounds if you rely on your agent to help with eviction. I suggested Mark Dawson of AST Assist. There are other firms but Mark is extremely highly recommended in the UK Landlord forums and his pricing is very reasonable. So many LL's try to start the eviction process themselves or with their agent and then end up having to get an eviction specialist. Just cut to the chase and go straight for the specialist.

@Puzzledandpissedoff thanks, for the link. yes I've ignored all comments that haven't had any value and instead tried to attack me. You appoint a managing agent and pay full management fees for their expertise. I had a parent pass away during this period this is another issue I could have done without

@ReadingSoManyThreads thank you i will contact Mark Dawson on Monday

Why should they get a good reference when they are like this

Yanbu