"Difficult" kids at Scouts - making my DS go?

[BakedBeansAndChips]

My DS (8) has been going to Scouting groups since he was 6. He LOVES it. Recently though there's been a handful of new kids starting and they are "difficult". Actually...they're vile. Hyper, screaming and SO rude to the adults (we have a rolling rota to help out, so I've seen this first hand).

My DS has started saying he doesn't want to go anymore. I have persuaded him to go along the last few times because he really used to love it. I feel like you can't just quit stuff because there are people you don't like involved (I can't stand some of my colleagues but I still have to work). This week he cried though and refused to go. He said they teased him last week because he doesn't play Minecraft, which made him feel sad.

I don't really know how to handle this. He really did love it, and it's just these kids who are causing a problem. I have mentioned it to the leader who acknowledged the issue but he can't/is unwilling to ask them to leave. He tells them off but it seems to bounce off them. Work commitments mean we can't move groups either.

DS is a very quiet, shy and quite sensitive kid. I think he's probably reacting to this situation in a more extreme way than other children would. I feel really sad that something he loves has been hijacked by kids who are so horrible, but I also want to help him learn that you can't let bullies win.

Am I being unreasonable to keep pushing him to go along? How long do we keep trying before quitting?

I can't think of anything more miserable than being made to go to an out of school thing that left me in tears.

They clearly aren't going to be asked to leave, so listen to your son.

Sorry I wasn't very clear there. I didn't make him go when he was crying! I've encouraged him along on the sessions where he's been a bit "meh" about it, but I'd never force him when he was really upset.

I suppose I just wondered whether I should try to encourage him again next week or whether to just leave... I'm so sad for him, he was so enthusiastic about it. He even made a little book to write his badges down in :(

Escalate it above the Akela if they won't deal with it. There will be people above him.
I'm a cub leader and we would absolutely deal with this.

What do other parents think? If the majority would want to leave because of these kids then maybe the leader will reassess?

Take it to your GSL - Group Scout Leader if the Cub leader can't/won't deal with it. its sad that kids miss out on stuff because other kids are out of control. I had a similar situation with my DS fortunately he was able to switch packs - however he is now due to move up and there is only 1 scout group and the kids that caused him problems are likely to move up too...

Yes, I think yabu. There’s plenty of time for life lessons.
Would you keep going some where that is supposed to be fun, in your free time that you hated.
You can't compare it to work. Thats ridiculous.
Also I wouldn’t want my kid being round these kids anyway.

Are the kids horrible and bullying, or just louder/more boisterous than your lad? If there's any sign of bullying, bring it up before you give in completely. I wouldn't want him to be bullied out of an activity he loves. Equally, if they are just loud, he might need to get used to that a wee bit, it'll be hard to keep him away from loud teen behaviour the older he gets.

Oh OP that's really sad. Maybe let him take a break. The horrid kids may leave and he could rejoin?

I would look for another cubs group and see if he can join there. I would also be open with the leaders about why he was moving - I think they need to have a word with the parents of these other children.

At the end of the day cubs is optional and if the kids there are unpleasant there is little to be gained by attending, and I wouldn't push him to keep going.

I feel like you can't just quit stuff because there are people you don't like involved

I actually think it's a better life lesson that actually, you don't have to put up with people who bully you and it's OK to remove yourself from those situations. It's not just kids he doesn't get along with, it's kids who are targeting him. And it's also OK, if you don't like the environment others have created, to leave it and seek out somewhere that's a better fit for you.

What did he like about Scouts particularly? All the various activities can be replicated in other groups.

Help more often so you can supervise/intervene. Any issues immediately raise with parents.

I wouldn't make my child go to something they didn't need to go to. I'd speak to the leader first to try and get something done, then if you leave tell them why

This op. We did this due to one child. Awful behaviour, constant disruption in class, etc. After several parents wanting to remove the kids, that child was asked to leave.

Have another talk with the Scout Leader. Be blunt - tell him that your son no longer wants to come, and if he does that's one less helper (you) on the rota.

If you get nowhere - leave.

Sounds tough. If it was me I'd just take him out much to my own annoyance. I remember taking DS along to a karate group for a trial when he was around 4. Thankfully parents could stay and I witnessed first hand 3 awful boys who were clearly bullying and causing havoc. Parents were all watching and did nothing. I was horrified and obviously didn't sign up. It's sad that kids like this ruin it for others though.

Is there another scouts group he could go to? We have 2 in our district.

Tbh it sounds like most schools where a significant minority make the atmosphere unpleasant because they are always messing around and being difficult. There is little the leaders can do. Parents will not accept their child is an issue - believe me I have experienced this. I would take him out and find another group.

Speak to the Leader again - it is not ok to drive well-behaved kids out.

I volunteered at Beavers & Cubs as a permanent parent helper for two years and the behaviour of quite a number of kids is just dire - they weren’t deliberately rude, more hyper, won’t listen, running around like greyhounds, disruptive etc. It got to the point when I thought I can’t be bothered with this anymore so I quit volunteering.

The Leaders made vague attempts at discipline but tbh I think the Scouting movement needs an overall of its behaviour management policies and training for all frontline staff/volunteers. This would be especially necessary and relevant given the behavioural problems the schools are experiencing due to the pandemic.

DD2 doesn't do Athletics club after school any more because of some awful boys from the year below. I absolutely agree in principle it is letting them win but in reality I'm paying for something she isn't enjoying and that's mental. We've replaced it with me and her doing c25k instead which feels like a very wholesome activity 😊

My DD has just quit cubs because of kids like this. I wasn't going to make her go somewhere and be unhappy week in and week out. We tried for a month but the kids just got worse. Enquire about another scout group.

As a leader it is so difficult. I completely understand sometimes kids wanting to leave. In the past I've had situations where the behaviour of one or two kids negatively impacted others. But it isn't always simple to sort out, generally there have been other things going on with the "difficult" kids and scouting was extremely beneficial for them. Or I've had a variety of additional needs whose individual needs conflicted with results that were a little like putting petrol on a bonfire and striking a match.

Striking the balance and trying to do your best for all the kids when you are a volunteer and not an educational, SEND or child behaviour expert is a challenge.

As a helper I don't know how much you know about the backgrounds of the "difficult" kids so it is hard to comment.

Can you talk to the leaders? Are there incentives they can put in place like points for their sixes for good behaviour? What is the process when they arrive? Can they try something else to see if it helps? Eg if arrival time currently involves a game can they try bringing children in to a quiet activity before register or the other way round, would an organised run around game at the start get some of the crazy out of their system?

Do the Cubs have a charter? If they do can they get it out and update or remind everybody? If not can they write one? Ours put things like respect, only one person talk at once, keep hands and feet to yourself on it as well as fun things.

If the kids are at the older end of cubs (I know they are new but they could be older starters) then I've found setting the leader component of the personal challenge award and making it about behaviour in a positive way can be effective. It means regular mini check ins with the young person and encouraging them to think about how their behaviour affects others and getting them to try a different approach and spot the difference. We've had good feedback from parents about that saying it has made a positive impact on their child at school too.

For your own child, I would first talk to leaders about different approaches then try to encourage your son by explaining that the leaders are going to try some new ways of running Cubs to make it a better place for everybody and encourage him to stick it out until half term and then review. Hopefully the kids will either be starting to settle or will have decided it isn't for them and left.

I'd pull him out and withdraw from the helping rota.

Do the parents of the disruptive kids help out?

Please do speak to the leader again and say that your child is thinking of leaving due to the disruptive children.

Are they bullying, or just disruptive? If they are bullying, then they should be removed (possibly after giving a warning). Scouts has a zero tolerance on bullying. But if they are generally just disruptive, then there are things that the leaders can do.

I'm an Akela, and we've put in place some strategies to deal with disruptive cubs. We only open the doors a few minutes before the session starts, and we ask the cubs to come in and get straight in to their places before we do the register/grand howl. They are expected to stand and wait quietly, and they manage to do this most weeks. This seems to be the most effective thing we've put in place, as the expected behaviour happens straight away. We still play games and run round after, but they know how to be quiet when needed.

We asked them to write their own code of conduct, and we have it on the wall. I also asked them what they thought would be a fair consequence if they didn't follow the code - they were much harsher than I would have been!! We settled on sitting out of the next activity if they can't be quiet/listen/behave when needed. Parents are only contacted for repeat offenders.

We sometimes have a jar of marbles, and if they have a good week, they get to put a marble in the jar for their six. Whichever six has the most marbles at the end of term gets a small prize.

All of this takes time and effort though, and I can totally understand if you don't want to send your son in the meantime.

Thanks for the comments everyone. I appreciate the inputs. I'll try to talk to the leaders again and hopefully we get somewhere.

I volunteer with a uniformed organisation. We have a discipline issue with a few of the young people but they are all related to the person in charge so I can't do anything about it. I stick it out because I believe in the organisation and the other young people who benefit from being part of our group (I have external support).