To remove the fence

[NoTreadingHere]

We have a fence that sits about 7cm from the neighbour's wall. It's a huge wall covering the entire length of their property. They never see into our side.

Our relations have been amicable but I've been keen to entirely remove the fence. It's rotting and decrepit, but the issue is that they demand the existing fence replaced (at shared cost) by a new and very expensive new fence to protect their precious 7cm.

They're now moving and are in the process of selling the property. They're not living in the property and I'm keen to have a helper come in and quietly pull out and remove the fencing. DH is totally absolutely against it, mainly because he's timid and conflict averse. I'm fuming as neither the existing owners or new owners would ever know about the fence removal and this is a golden opportunity to solve the fence problem forever. The new owners are unlikely to be any more forgiving (it's that kind of area).

Basically I'm raging that the solution can't be implemented

This happened with my neighbours who didn't want to maintain their fence that was falling down. I was happy to go half on the cost even though it was 100% their fence and boundary to maintain. They didn't. I put my own up inside my property boundary which had to leave a gap of 7cm. They took theirs down and tried to steal my land and in process of doing so didn't mark the boundary so now they will need to get a surveyor in to prove the boundary line again.

I told them all of this but they thought they could do what they like and I was wrong. Turned to a solictor and egg on their face as they will now end up paying far more money to sort the boundary out then either maintaing the fence in the first place, paying half for a new one or even just marking the boundary with a peiece of wire.

So OP if you own the boundary and the fence it sits on be smart.

It’s their fence? Then this is totally illegal.

if it’s your fence, you never needed to ask in the first place.

if it’s a shared fence you should expect to share replacement costs.

Is the wall their house or is it a garden wall? Is it the boundary?

Either way I'd just take the fence down.

Who does the fence belong to? If it's you then take it down. You're not legally obliged to have a fence.

If it's your ndn simply pop round and ask them if they mind if you take it down.

To be frank, this is exactly my plan. But it's a 7cm they'll never, ever notice.

Good advice from many here. Sneak attack to outmaneuver timid DH and neighbours.

"stealing" the land is not good advice at all.

There are enough boundary issue threads on MN to show that this sort of thing does indeed get noticed.

Your plan is to steal the land? Well, you´re extremely unreasonable in that case.

Hang on, you didn't read and interpret my post correctly. I am saying it illegal for you to take their 7cm. Y That was the point of my post when my neighbours tried to do it to me over my 7cm. Not allowed to. They got a letter from my solicitor telling them that it was illegal for them to do they cannot adversely possess the land and now they are fucked, because they have to pay someone to reestablish where the boundary is since they didn't mark it when they took the fence down.

My advice to you was to be smart and do the right thing and not be idiots like my neighbour because it will cost you more money. If you own the fence and therefore responsible for the boundary, you can take down the fence but you must something there to mark the boundary, small fence, wire, whatever. Otherwise if you don't you are opening a boundary dispute which you will end up paying a ton of money for a surveyor to reestablish where it is. So be smart save money by doing things properly and legally.

But since you cannot even read my post properly it just sounds like you want be idiots like my neighbour and do whatever you want to do and screw anyone else. But I bet if your neighbours tried to do it to you then you would have something to say about it!

If the fence is that rotten, just wait till DH is out and go and pull it down into your garden. Then when he comes back just say "Oh look what happened!!" and then get rid of it.

Absolutely do not take over the extra land though - mark it and leave it alone

I don't have to "steal" the 7cm. Fence comes down and my garden (maybe with some light encouragement) does the rest. Can they sue my plants??

Absolutely this.

your boundaries are recorded legally in. Land deeds. Whilst there’s a disclaimer on them to say they’re not 100% accurate, they are in most cases pretty spot on

if you come to sell your home, a half way decent solicitor will see that your boundary is inside the neighbours wall. In effect you’re using 7cm or whatever of your neighbours land - at very least that can lead to conveyancing delays. At worst it will cost you money to have land professionally surveyed to re establish boundary. or a sale fall through .

some metal pegs marked with paint can be pushed into the boundary, all the way down to the ground, along fence line as you remove fence so don’t have to show. But you will have the legal boundary retained and marked. Remember if you allow anything to grow or build anything on it, they have rights to rip it all out - even if the plant is mainly on your side.

with regard to having to have a fence- if on deeds you are fully responsible for said boundary enclosure, and there is no convenants in your deeds to state you must maintain a physical enclosure , then go ahead and remove. If it’s shared boundary , enclosure or their boundary responsisiblty then you can’t remove without their consent even if you put it up and paid for it (you didn’t have to do that ).

if you don’t have deeds to hand go to land registry and request maps - about £3 a pop, and instant ish download. While you’re at it get a copy of their plot map too and deeds so you can see if theirs anything in their docs that will effect that decision. A few mins and £6 can be very illuminating sometimes!

Also, do the maths

It’s 7cm down a long stretch , if that’s longer than 14m stretch you’ve taken 1 square metre of their land to use for your own purposes against their consent. How would you feel if someone started using 1 square metre of your land ?

just because to you it’s a “useless” long thin stretch they’re not using, it is still their land, and even 1 square metre is not insignificant.

I still don't understand where the actual boundary is and whose land is in the 7cm between the wall and fence. And why the fence is even there in the first place.

Have you taken it down yet? We could all pop round and help.

You are stealing it if you start using it and planting stuff on it etc. Its not your land to take or use what part of that don't you understand.

Honestly you are just as bad as my neighbours.

Plants? Obviously not. But it’s definitely possible to sue you (and your DH)…

If I were to take the fence down, I’d definitely mark the boundary (metal pegs, low garden fence etc).

So basically theft then

Completely unreasonable

Good advice from @Appleofmyeye2023

OP, who owns the fence?

I can see their point. In our first house we acquired half a metre at the bottom of the garden because the people we bought from took down a fence that stood between them and the back of our rear neighbour's garage (no window in the garage, so presumably never noticed.

We never replaced it and sold the house on with no problem but if push came to shove, it wasn't our land.

And then a ballache when you ever want to sell as you have a land dispute for the sake of 7cm. Don’t be a dick.

The second you start using their land your in the wrong.

I'm confused (it doesn't take much at the moment!)
So is the fence along the actual boundary? Why did they build a wall? Is it a low wall?

Are you saying you want to remove the old fence and subsequently you intend to keep quiet and effectively acquire an extra 7cm x the length of the garden? You can't do that!

😂 Sit on the fence! Did no one else laugh?

The fence is the boundary line. It predates both of our occupancy so there's no known history as to why their wall and house don't go all the way to the property line.

I'm NOT stealing anything. The garden will just grow over the boundary line into the 7cm (especially once I insist that DH accidentally and thoroughly fertilize it).

You need to look at your deeds and establish whose responsibility the fence/boundary maintenance is. If it is yours, you can take it down and chose not to replace it; if it is theirs, they can chose to remove it/erect another fence or you can request they take it down and hope they agree, but the cost for doing so is their liability. It will be in your conveyancing documents (deeds/covenants).

If you take it down and it is not your boundary/responsibility, a future owner can take legal proceedings. They may be referenced on the new buyer’s survey report, so don’t assume no-one will notice.

In our street, on our side of the road, we are all responsible for the right hand sided fences, per the deeds & covenants. I wanted to dog proof our garden and replace ugly/rusted/low/broken 30-40yo wire fences and industrial iron posts. We were not legally entitled to change the ones on the left hand side, but our lovely neighbours happily agreed to allow us to do so as we offered to pay for it in full and consulted on the style of 5ft wire fencing and associated hedging. They did, actually offer to give us something towards it all, but it’s our dogs we’re safeguarding, so we were happy to decline.

You cannot grow anything up their wall, attach anything to it or do anything to damage it in any way that does include damage from plants.

We own our garden wall but there is still a gap I can walk behind to trim back tree and shrub branches as the cost of a fence is expensive, think how much building a wall costs.

The reason they didn't build all the way to the boundary line especially if part of it was an extension and then the wall a continuation is because it is best practise to leave a 50mm gap as a minimum. That way if you ever wanted to extend too you would also not build up to the boundary wall. Also allows the bricks to dry out from wind and the occasional sun we get in the UK.

You seem to think that you are not stealing land by allowing your planting to grow in that direction, yes you are intending to steal using plants. I hope they see this thread and take photos and videos of the fence being where it is in relation to their wall.

The other thing I will caution you on is never assume that your new neighbours won't be batshit crazy and make their life's mission to make your life hell. Have a wander over to the Garden Law forum especially the boundaries or fences sections. No they can't sue your plants but they can cut them back to the boundary line.

Check your deeds and see what the situation is re the boundary and whether you have to keep a fence in place. My deeds specifically state that all walls and fences must be kept in good repair so I can't allow a fence to fall down and not repair it.

So is your intention to use the 7cm?

How high is their wall?

What outcome are you seeking vis the boundary line?