To say no! Twilight sessions (unpaid)

[LorlieS]

Can't sleep I'm so stressed!!
I'm working as a HLTA - paid hours 8.30 until 3.30.
Just picked up an email sent today telling me I need to attend two twilight sessions from after school until 6pm. Needless to say these will not be paid for and the first one is this week!
AIBU to say no?
Oh, and I also have a 3 yo and her childcare only runs until 4.30.

The full part you're quoting is this:

Persons who may carry out specified work under supervision

6.—(1) This paragraph applies to a person who carries out specified work in a school where—

(a)the person carries out such work in order to assist or support the work of a qualified teacher or a nominated teacher in the school;

(b)the person is subject to the direction and supervision of a qualified teacher or nominated teacher in accordance with arrangements made by the head teacher of the school; and

(c)the head teacher is satisfied that the person has the skills, expertise and experience required to carry out specified work.

(2) In this paragraph a “nominated teacher” means a person who is mentioned in paragraphs 2, 3 or 4 of this Schedule and who is nominated by the head teacher where the head teacher considers that appropriate in the circumstances.

(3) In determining whether the person mentioned in sub-paragraph (1) has the skills, expertise and experience required to carry out specified work in a school, the head teacher may have regard to—

(a)such standards for higher-level teaching assistants, or guidance concerning school support staff as may be published from time to time by the Secretary of State; and

(b)such guidance as to contractual matters relating to school support staff as may be published from time to time by any local authority or other employer.

The crucial difference between planning as a HLTA and a teacher is where the accountability lies.

An HLTA can plan but the teacher remains accountable for the class and the progress. This is why the teacher (either class teacher or appropriate teacher in school) needs to have oversight of what is going on.
(Edit to add - for example there's a difference between planning some lessons to deliver on a specific topic Vs designing the curriculum and deciding without support which topics are being studied next half term)

Good HLTAs are worth their weight in gold and are paid awfully for what they do.
There's also sometimes problems when teachers who are fed up with the pressure of teaching take HLTA roles without fully appreciating exactly what can be asked of an HLTA, then complaining when it turns out the HLTA role is closer to a teaching role than a level 2/3 TA role.

A. As stated, my schools are in a MAT so they’re not maintained
B. ‘Under the direction or supervision’ means been line managed not alongside a qualified teacher.

Obviously your contract may be different - I was just saying what was the norm in schools I’ve worked in for the past 20 odd years and the 35+ schools in my MAT now.

It sounds like teaching and then support staff roles in education aren’t for you so you’re leaving the education sector. Lots of luck with you MSc, job hunt and future career.

@Castleview6 I honestly don't know why on earth any sane person would even consider becoming an HLTA these days.
If you look back at all of the expectations you have listed...and I'm sure that's not an exhaustive list and then look at the pay. It's absolute madness!
How much would you say your support staff earn on average?

If parents knew how many unqualified and non subject specific teachers were working in schools I think they would be shocked.

@stomachameleon Absolutely! I did have a parent question it last year when I was frequently covering a class teacher that was off poorly. Parent said she wasn't happy that her child wasn't being taught by a qualified teacher and there was no consistency.
Well the school got out of that one easily, didn't they?!!!

This! Or the other reason is so that school can finish a day early (e.g. for summer holidays), or come back a day late (usually after Christmas).

Usually staff are informed well ahead of time so that child care can be arranged.

Have you just started the job and didn’t realise?

@Avoidingsleep 20 years qualified teacher, 4 years in this HLTA role. We were informed on Monday. First session Weds.

That’s ridiculous to have just been told. In fact it’s disrespectful and shows no understanding that people have a life outside work. We were always told in September when they would be, and were given at least 4 weeks notice so childcare could be arranged.

@Avoidingsleep I think it was an oversight as I asked my colleague just to check I hadn't missed anything and no - nobody knew until start of the week. HT has asked me if I can do online training at home in my own time which of course I will.

If you can find one that might work but you would have after school meetings and CPD to attend.

At least they have given you an alternative option and aren’t forcing you to go.

@LuluBlakey1 Of course. As a qualified teacher you expect that. I was teaching for over 15 years before I dropped down to HLTA. But I would expect more notice than just two days!

@Avoidingsleep I wouldn't have gone even if they insisted - needed to look after my 3 yo.

Gosh!

How hard was that to talk to your line manager?

All the angst over absolutely nothing with such a straightforward solution.

This is like soaps where no one can work out how to communicate or be honest just for The Drama of it all.

Stupid old me thought that when schools have an inset day, it's for teacher training CPD etc.
So the staff all get paid, have a day off, then moan about childcare when they're expected to make up the hours?
Inset days were horrific for me as a lone parent to 4, working full time. I had to pay childcare. As do my children for their children.
You'll have to pay someone. Like everyone else does.

@baileybrosbuildingandloan I'm not a teacher?

She was sniping at @WonderingWanda .

@baileybrosbuildingandloan Don't want to be the grammar police but if you're having a pop at @WonderingWanda for using one apostrophe incorrectly (?predictive text changed), the word "Teacher" in the middle of a sentence should not begin with a capital letter.

She’s a TA who isn’t paid for attending INSET. Also, INSET days have not been ‘added to’ teacher holidays. They were taken out of teachers’ holidays back in late 1980s as part of a pay deal. Teachers’ unions agreed that teachers would give 5 days of their annual holidays (these became training days, originally known as Baker Days after Ed Min at the time) for pay rise.

She is paid for inset, if these figures she gave are right:
Average £12-something p/h. Paid for 5.5 hours a day (27.5 hrs). 39 weeks in a school year.

39 weeks in a school year equals 195 days.
Children do 190 days. Teachers do 195 days because of the inset that you wrote about. If she is paid for 39 weeks a year that includes the 5 Baker days.

Heads prefer full time staff-less fiddly so part time requests come from existing staff who want to work less for whatever reason and heads want to keep.

@Shinyandnew1 Indeed, and I get that. No way would I ever want to return to ft teaching. And of course I'll need to be part-time when doing the MSc.
I've booked an appt to have a chat with SLT member of staff to see where we go from here.

It is tedious to have to keep explaining over and over again that training days were taken from, teachers' holidays when they were introduced!

Stupid old me thought that when schools have an inset day, it's for teacher training CPD etc.
So the staff all get paid, have a day off, then moan about childcare when they're expected to make up the hours?
Inset days were horrific for me as a lone parent to 4, working full time. I had to pay childcare. As do my children for their children.
You'll have to pay someone. Like everyone else does.
Not sure what the stupid old me was about, inset is for staff training. Just instead of having everyone in for a day, many schools (all I've worked in) spread 1-2 of the insets over twilight sessions.

Staff aren't paid to have a day off. The day off on the inset day is essentially TOIL for hours already worked.

I preferred it often because I'd rather have a twilight doing useful exam board training that's relevant to me and my students in the spring term, than sit in the hall on a Monday in July feeling irritated I could have taken DC on holiday if it weren't for 2 days inset after they broke up.