Backchat - normal?

[Bringonspring24]

How much backchat is normal from your 8 year olds?

My DS is relentless, it’s several times a day. I don’t think it’s right.

AIBU = it’s normal, 8 year olds are full of cheek and attitude

AIBNU = my 8 year old wouldn’t dare speak to me like that

My DSS does this non-stop sometimes, but his mum is incredibly argumentative and he also likely has ADHD which I think is why his patience is so short…

Some of the things you are saying resonate in terms of mocking or being sarcastic, and when I’ve explored this with DSS a fair bit of the time he admits he is copying friends and doesn’t actually understand a lot of what he is saying. When I have showed him how it would be the other way around (if I did it to him) he seems to understand better how it may impact. He struggles a lot with the idea that the context is really important and a lot of what might be a joke with friends when they are messing around, is really rude in other contexts. He does a lot to be how he thinks he should be behaving, what’s ‘cool’ etc. which is worrying to me, but does help me to understand some of his behaviour.

When they start back-chatting to you and you don't pull them up on it, then they start back chatting to other people (Grandparents, teachers, other adults such as sports coaches and other parents who will no longer be willing to make an effort for the child if they're rude ), And this affects them more in the long run and is to be avoided. So it's in the best interest for the child to stop it before they start back chatting beyond the parent.

Something like the shower - explain what happens if we don't shower. If they're used to (begrudgingly) showering them maybe they don't know what happens to people who don't clean themselves.

Explain that if they can't follow instructions and be polite to people, then you can't let them go with another family without you on a playdate or to sports training or whatever they might want to go. It's about learning real-life consequences for their actions.

@Haveyouanyjam wow your DSS also sounds identical! Not realising something his friends think is funny is actually inappropriate when said to others…wanting to be cool…all very like my DS. He also gets things from his friends, I wish I could police his friends as some are lovely, some awful! But to be honest he needs to learn to be his own person anyway so he would always still get a telling off for anything he claims he’s copied from a friend.

@Muffinwoman1 something i’ve wondered, his behaviour at school wasn’t great in the earlier years but he’s in Year 4 now and it’s been fairly settled since KS2. It was always low level stuff so nothing I was ever pulled aside for, but it would come up in parents’ evenings. He is really bright, and needs to be kept occupied once he’s finished work, thankfully he likes reading so his teacher allows the children to read once they’ve finished and checked their work.

Can I ask what strategies you use @Muffinwoman1 , for silly behaviour? That’s a big one for my DS. He gets very carried away at certain times and never knows when to stop.

@Bringonspring24 yes that’s exactly a conversation we had the other day, copying a friend isn’t an excuse, we are all responsible for our own behaviour and no matter what someone else does, short of holding a gun to your head, it’s down to you. He seemed honestly shocked that it wouldn’t matter if someone else told him to do it! I’ve tried to highlight that he will learn the hard way if he doesn’t learn at home, as as he grows up other people won’t be as kind about it.

I also use the example of someone behaving the way he is in a shop to a cashier etc. and what he would think of them. It seems to help if it’s a neutral example rather than how I feel, it’s like he thinks it’s fine with family.

DS does it. I pull him up on it. Sometimes I think he thinks he's being clever. When he was smaller we had the naughty step. Rarely used these days but he'll end up on it now and then and 10 minutes is a good chunk of his evening.

Speaking to other parents at groups he goes to some of them found the same with their kids so I've not seen it as something to worry about.

Posts like this always have people insisting they’ll do it at school - I don’t think they generally do. Often children are worse at home.

I don’t necessarily think you have to come down too hard on it to be honest.

@Bringonspring24 We let smaller things slide and try and pick our battles as there's no need to address every little issue and make him feel he can't get anything right. If it's something serious then no doubt it's nipped it in the bud before things escalate. Distraction is used a lot as I've realised he mostly plays up when he's bored or frustrated or seeking attention.

Immediate consequences are effective and as I mentioned previously perhaps no ipad until he's issued an apology (he finds apologising VERY difficult therefore it's a big deal for him) so eg if he's thrown his ipad in anger after losing a game he needs to apologise and I'll explain why that's not on. We also allow natural consequence too so if he refuses to eat after a reminder, he will learn himself he'll be staying hungry until the next meal. 'Time-in' has been quite effective as it gives him a chance to cool off alone and we've reinforced it as a positive rather than a punishment. So if he's been quite silly, he's sent to a quiet, comfortable place to reflect, do some breathing exercises, reading, playing with a fidget toy, anything that helps him regulate. Tbh it helps us all calm down as it's not easy to remain patient all the time!

We use co-regulation, one to one time, lots of praise which have helped curb the worst of the behaviour as a lot of it can be attention seeking. Yelling makes him yell and makes everything worse. Logical reasoning used for why he can't do a certain thing works great when he argues back and we absolutely shut down any back and forth. Reward charts have been great in the past when he was younger. So I think mainly for us it's a case of trying to meet his needs and avoiding a situation in the first place which then helps avoid majority of the naughty behaviour.

I'm bracing myself for puberty as that's a whole other kettle of fish and will certainly bring about many changes in him at home as well as school but we'll see!

I disagree with ignoring because I feel it just encourages the behaviour more. I have an 8yo and he tried this around 6 mostly testing boundaries. I would ask him in a firm voice, are you backchatting and are you sure about that? He quickly changed his tone. He's 8 and he's so lovely now. I would not tolerate it at all. They grow up to be such awful teenagers. You know the ones, 13/14 using vulgar language on their parents. You read about them on here all the time

You see I generally think teens is where the problems start.

I am not trying to pick on anyone here but I’ve noticed this more and more on here lately - there’s firmness bordering on overly stern. Language like ‘wouldn’t tolerate / wouldn’t dare’ and so on.

I am not saying just put up with it but I di think a certain amount of cheek will happen with most kids and I don’t think going over the top about it is healthy for anyone.

They're all different aren't they! My 2 (now grown up) only really back-chatted me when they were tired/irritable. I got much better at reading the warning signs and avoiding it. I also got much better at warming them up to the idea of what I was going to ask so that the reason was sown before the task was given. That worked surprisingly well. When it didn't I'd challenge any rudeness (sometimes jokingly, sometimes seriously) and on the rare occasion that didn't work it was time out until calm the talk it through.

I think I had easy DC tbh but I remember 8-10 being particularly bad for this. They tend to reset a bit at secondary when they're brought down a peg or two by becoming small fish in a much bigger pond. Hang on in there.

Thanks everyone, very useful replies.

@Muffinwoman1 thank you so much for taking the time to give me those tips, it’s all really useful and so much is really resonating for my DS. A particularly bad behaviour of his when he’s bored is to tease his little sister, and that’s when we have those days where we are constantly telling him off as we just can’t let him be so mean. She idolises him too!

@Haveyouanyjam that’s a really good point and actually to DS’ credit he’s 95% of the time very polite to people serving customers in shops, cafes etc. More so than his peers, I’ve noticed, he’s got lovely manners when dealing with those sorts of situations and I always praise him hugely. He’s pretty polite at school too although I know he can also be a bit cheeky and boundary pushing once he gets familiar with the teacher. He’s always very quiet and biddable the first few weeks!

@Campinginthewinter I’ve read a lot of “I wouldn’t tolerate that” on here and I always wonder what it means. I certainly don’t encourage bad behaviour nor make my DC think it’s ok, but there’s only so much a parent can do short of stripping the child of all privileges, which I’ve learned doesn’t get great results here when it’s for low level bad behaviour. I’d rather save it for the big bad behaviours which thankfully don’t happen often, but when my DS lost his iPad for a fortnight for swearing in a friend’s parents’ car (even though yes, he was allegedly “encouraged” by the friend!) he really knew about it!

Bumping this because I have some real life examples, DS has been particularly bad the last couple of days.

Yesterday we had our usual battle over homework.

Today, he was being unkind to his little sister (he really goes out of his way to do this) and I calmly asked him to go upstairs because she was very upset, and asked why he’s so mean to her. His response - “yeah I’m soooo mean aren’t I.” And refusal to budge.

On the school run, DD has just learned to ride a bike and we she was cycling carefully with me walking, DS on his bike. He kept going in front of her and stopping so she would have to stop suddenly. I asked him to stop, he did it again, I told him to stop again, he said he didn’t do it on purpose, before saying “next time I will do it on purpose.”

I stopped him, sent DD on ahead, and without shouting but very sternly said that this behaviour needs to stop, and if it carries on, there will be serious consequences.

I hate when we get into these cycles. He stopped then but sulked all the way to school and went in without saying bye, I tried to get him to have a quick hug (no one was around, he does get embarrassed and I know this) and he wouldn’t, just went off to his class.

When he was sarcastic to you, how did you respond?

With your school run example, the obvious answer is to take his bike away and make him walk. One warning and if he does it again you explain that he will now be walking because he's causing his sister to be in danger of falling off/into the road. Always follow through and don't give in.

To be honest not wanting to hug you on his way into school I would let that drop, that's common at that age and you need to choose your battles.

@Mrgrinch oh for sure, he never usually wants to, it was more me trying to leave him on a good note, it’s added to me feeling awful because he’s gone into school on the back of being told off really sternly with no “make up”.

I usually respond to rudeness like that with either “the look” or a “do not be rude”. That sort of thing. Mixed results.