Not believing in marriage is a luxury belief

[ironorchids]

Is it me or are there a lot of men these days who disbelieve in marriage for various reasons at the expense of the women they are with who believe in it, want it and have wanted it their whole lives?

Whatever the various reasons they give for disbelieving in it, at the end of the day, it is a luxury belief for someone who will never ever have to worry about or to take on the risk of potentially getting pregnant, having to have months or years off work to recover, feed them from your body, or even risk being left holding the baby as you're the one physically pregnant, if their partner leaves?

Disbelief in marriage is a luxury, and it's usually (not always) when you are free from all that risk and have that luxury that you can afford to believe all the other reasons so many men give (at the expense of the women they're with) for not believing in it.

This. Marriage provides insurance for mothers when men don't keep their promises.

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia But in reality, under what circumstances would a woman be refused an abortion if that was her decision?

In the context of the discussion about granting mothers a entitlement to half of their children's fathers' property, the purpose of a male contraceptive is to give the man more control over how much risk he takes by having sex.

There was a woman recently jailed because she attempted a self-managed abortion after the time limit during lockdown.

Plenty of women have faced conscientious objectors when requesting abortions.

Abortion isn't a right in this country.

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia But after the time limit?

@LorlieS anyone with moral or religious objections to termination should not be having unprotected sex with someone who doesn’t wish a child.

Let's flip that: "Anyone with objections to having a child shouldn't be having unprotected sex with someone who can get pregnant and might not wish to abort".

Men can use their bodies within the law to avoid parenthood. So can women. This is called equality.

1. Self-managed abortion is illegal at all stages in England, Wales, and Scotland.
2. In Northern Ireland, she would have commited no crime.

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia I meant when is it not permitted if in the legal time frame?

@albalass
"My career was established enough by the time I had my child that if I had ended up a single parent I could have coped (financially at least)."

ie you had the luxury of not believing in marriage.

I disagree. I am a single woman and currently 33 weeks pregnant. I have never believed in marriage. Though marriage can provide greater financial stability, I would not choose that for myself. I think the problem runs deeper, why should two incomes be necessary? I think that if you are working full-time and earning a decent wage, you should be able to support yourself easily. For many, the reality is very different.

Exactly.

We both went back to work FT and I had a shorter maternity leave.

It doesn't have to be that way, some of it is absolutely down to choice.

What a luxury to only work part time! Now that’s something many can only dream of!

I dont believe marriage is the best option for me. But I don’t want to have children. That’s the difference.

Never ceases to amaze me how many people assume all women want children (and yes, I know this is mumsnet, but it’s still true).

My DH ran a company (his company) and was responsible for over 100 employees. Who in their right mind thinks everyone can just step away and reduce hours? There’s so little understanding of how difficult this can be for many. Impossible actually.

When work is a passion and others depend upon the success of the company it’s important to be realistic about marriage and raising dc. All is not often equal and pragmatic, not dogmatic, decisions have to be made. It’s not a sign of a weak woman.

My DH ran a company (his company) and was responsible for over 100 employees. Who in their right mind thinks everyone can just step away and reduce hours? There’s so little understanding of how difficult this can be for many. Impossible actually

Women seem to be expected to manage it.

I always find it odd how so many people on Mumsnet assume all women earn loads less than their husbands and need to be married for financial security. I know plenty of people who have good jobs and would actually stand to lose more than their husbands if they got divorced. If you don't work or earn a pittance then you are better being married, but it doesn't apply to everyone. Not everyone has massive maternity leaves either. It really depends on the individual.

Abortion remains illegal at all stages. The Abortion Act 1967 creates a legal defence for a doctor to carry out an abortion under limited circumstances. These circumstances become a lot more restricted at 24 weeks, which is referred to colloquially as "the time limit". Abortion is not a right and framing arguments as though it were is inaccurate.

Women have to claim that an unwanted pregnancy will cause harm to them or any existing children. Basically we have to pretend that staying pregnant will make us mentally ill or harm our kids. This is not how rights work.

@Gingertam Agreed. Neither I nor my husband have gained anything financially by marrying. We both have nowt!

I can't just step away from my career either, I went back to work after 12 weeks. I'm called selfish because I have a vagina, yet men do it all of the time.

The majority of women do step away, some completely but most drop to part time. It is possible for many, many people but it is only women who do it most of the time.

That's great as long as your child turns out to be healthy. If your child turns out to be disabled and you have to stop work to become their carer, what then?

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia But in reality how many women go to a doctor (before 24 weeks) requesting a termination and the doctor says no?

@SouthLondonMum22 I don’t think anyone is selfish but we need to understand that one size doesn’t fit all. Marriage is the best option for many. Negotiating who works when can be brilliant but it is a luxury not available to all. Not everyone can do what they would like.

Women with catholic GPs experience this all the time. There is no legal requirement for the GP to refer the woman to a pro-choice colleague.

Going back to the original post that I replied to: whether abortion is a right or not, men get to use their bodies to avoid parenthood and women get to use their bodies to avoid parenthood. It is not the responsibility of the woman to have an abortion because the man failed to exercise his options when he had the chance to. It is not acceptable in a civilised society for feckless men to leave their children without financial support either.

Fin.

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia The big difference is men can bugger off if they choose to. Women rarely can. Sadly that's probably why these feckless men are less bothered about women becoming pregnant.