To think Super Nanny Jo Frost has lost the plot?

[Pekoe78]

Assuming she sanctions the views on her social media page. Jo Frost has shared this bizarre scary post claiming that an unclean home is the “number one sign” of child abuse. How is she getting away with such inaccurate information? Surely she knows the difference between abuse and neglect and that actual abuse can happen in any home. If a child is actually suffering from real neglect, simply telling the parents “clean your house” is not going to help a complex situation. So what is she trying to achieve apart from making parents terrified of being accused of something because they are behind with cleaning?!

👏👏👏👏

All of this. Exactly the point.

as someone with a really un organised messy house i totally understand what shes saying!! My house may be messy, it has toys running amok in every room BUT it isnt dirty. its lived in

The Graded Care Profile is often used by Social Workers to determine neglect from the home environment, dirty is just one aspect alongside other things and there are different aspects to each thing

It’s incredibly badly worded.

Is it the number 1 sign of abuse? No.

Is a filthy house a sign of abuse? Highly likely.

Is a bit of dust and a few pans in the sink sign of abuse? No way.

Depends if the child is living in squalor or not.

Depends if the child is living in squalor or not.

What does?🤔

Neglectful parents living in squalor won't read this and even if they did it wouldn't change their behaviour. They won't suddenly start cleaning up because the issues are more complex.

However this could have a very negative effect on the children f parents with tendencies toward obsessive cleaning and phobias around dirt. These parents may read her post and it could actually increase the harm to the children.

I know of a child who is at risk of being removed because its mother neglects its needs because cleaning and tidiness is more important (not potty training, not allowing toys out, issues with food). At the less extreme end my DH recalls many negative incidents in childhood that were caused by his Mother's cleanliness obsession. Telling a parent like this that a dirty home is a sign of neglect is hugely damaging to the parent and child because they will think that only bleaching the floor four times a day is neglect.

Goodness, is she still on the go?
I'd not heard of her for decades.

Is she trying to revive her social media presence?

There are obviously cases in the media where children have lived- and died- in squalor. That is abuse.

And there is clearly a line between ' a bit grubby' and a house that's filthy and not fit for anyone to live in.

I'd like to know the context or trigger for her post because out of context it seems to be stating the obvious.

On the basis that every midwife and HV who came to my house, banged on about how clean and tidy (and beautiful) it was when I'd just had a baby, I am quite sure those vocations, along with social workers would disagree wholeheartedly with Jo Frost.

My lovely HV, when I was worried about my messy house with a newborn, said that it’s normal and while they look out for people who aren’t coping, they also don’t expect you to be living in a spotless show home - and in fact if everything is spotless that can also be a worry as it can indicate the mum is suffering post natal anxiety, or has a partner who is demanding spotless standards and either way she’s not getting enough rest. Not necessarily a worry but they are alert to it.

If the mother is struggling with her mental health or not, if the child is living in squalid conditions it is child abuse. Whether intentional or unintentional it is detrimental to the child. So people should say nothing?

Er...whether it's abuse or not.

Surely that's clear?

On the basis that every midwife and HV who came to my house, banged on about how clean and tidy (and beautiful) it was when I'd just had a baby, I am quite sure those vocations, along with social workers would disagree wholeheartedly with Jo Frost.

Don't understand your logic here.

If health visitors commented on a clean house, then they would surely comment on a dirty house- or be concerned?

Your comment would only make sense if you said the HV paid no attention to or didn't comment on your clean house.

I can honestly say having worked in the field. A dirty house is a house where parents are not functioning and not taking care of themselves or their children

Shes not talking about a normal messy House

TBH I don't know why anyone is getting so enraged by a post by someone who I consider to be well past her use by date.
She was always controversial, that's how she made a name for herself.
It's just an attention-seeking social media post- and it's worked!

This. No one living in squalor is going to change their ways on the basis of this post. People who live in conditions that are so bad their children are neglected are not doing so because they haven't been told not to. There will be complex and multiple issues going on that in most cases puts them way beyond the reach of this sort of messaging. All this does is speak to parents already operating within the mainstream, creating guilt and anxiety in those who struggle to keep things to the highest standards, and giving those who do (even if at the expense of other forms of childcare) permission to be smug and judgemental.

I'd like to know what services Jo Frost thinks are available to help these parents too.

It might not necessarily be the fault of the parent who feels unable to clean up. They might be suffering with a mental or physical health condition. So shes wrong to say " clean your house" because it's not as simple as that. But that doesn't mean the child living in those conditions is not being neglected. A bit of mess is fine, but dirt is not. You can't have kids around mouldy old food and animal excrement.

She probably means shit on the floor and blocked sinks with mouldy dishes/food remnants everywhere.

I don’t think she means a cardboard bin that’s a bit over full or a couple of loads of washing needing doing.

She is saying that squalor is often indicative of neglect and in some cases abuse
It doesn’t mean that if you have a pristine home that there isn’t neglect or abuse

The point is a chaotic home environment may first be spotted/noticed by a number of others - before social services are engaged. So it’s a telltale sign that other issues may be at play. I don’t think Jo Frost is likely to make any statement that isn’t supported by data/evidence. Someone likely to neglect their child is also someone who could easily neglect their home.

This.

There are some families I have visited where you know that you need to take a spare change of clothes to work for that day. You don’t dare sit down but the smell still gets in your clothes and hair. Your heart absolutely breaks for those children. And yes it’s huge sign of neglect and abuse.

However, I don’t really get what Jo Frost is on about. No one (professionally speaking) cares if you have a few dirty dishes in the sink or haven’t hoovered for a while. It’s not the same and isn’t indicative of the same kinds of complex social issues.

Sheesh.

I really do not like this woman.

I think she ought not to continue to lecture parents and perhaps issue an apology for making light entertainment out of small children who were clearly neuro diverse, framing them as spoilt brats, and subjecting them to a distressing home life

This!! The kids take priority. A lot of defensiveness on this thread.

I don’t think she’s talking about those of us who should push a hoover around more than once a week or who haven’t dusted in a while. She’s talking about people who don’t own a hoover or a duster and don't ever look around their home and think “I need to clean”, because they have never considered doing it.
I agree with her that a common denominator of neglect is a dirty home, along with dirty and ill fitting clothes, poor hygiene and poor diet. The key point is that most people’s ‘dirty’ is not what she is referring to.

It’s also very much not ‘the no 1 sign of abuse’ considering agencies who may make a safeguarding referral in the first place probably won’t have even been in the child’s house!