More SEN, better diagnosis, lack of funding or a combination?

[genuinequestion235]

Genuine question:

I read a lot of threads on here relating to poor provisions and support for children with SEN. When I was a child I don't remember many children with SEN (3 spring to mind in my school of 200!)

So do people think more children have SEN needs? Or are we simply better at diagnosing?

I appreciate the points you’re making @SpudleyLass and @ntmdino but you’d expect roughly the same proportion of profiles across a generation. As it is non verbalism seems to be very very concentrated in the current under 10s. My gran worked with children from the 60s through to the 80s, she met thousands of families and never once met a child who was non verbal without a clear reason such as Down’s Syndrome. It’s definitely hugely increased in just a handful of years.

Respectfully, your Gran worked at a time that was horrific for children with such disabilities. They truly were hidden away. It's hard to get figures, I'd imagine for a cohort of children unfortunate enough to exist at a time when they were considered even more of a burden than they are now.

I strongly suspect it was more common than people can appreciate. The late Prince John, Uncle to the Late Queen Elizabeth II, was non verbal until he died at 13. He was the youngest of 6 children, so can't be blamed on parenting like people froth at the mouths to do.

Totally agree with @Naptrappedmummy

I’m not sure of your age but were you an adult in the 60s, 70s and 80s? If not, how are you so sure they are all misremembering?

UsingChangeofName

Do you have data for that because I’m not seeing

”huge numbers of children with really significant and complex needs. None of whom would 'sneak under the radar' or 'not be noticed'. We are talking about children starting school without the ability to make their needs known. No expressive language. No receptive language. With significant sensory needs that impact upon their behaviours. With complex dietary requirements. That bite or hit out. That head bang. That have no recognition of having soiled their nappy. That have no understanding of instructions or the concept 'it is time for us all to...... now'. That sometimes just squeal or scream for a large part of the day.
In some schools 3 or 4 starting school like that”

Where are you getting figures and data for that?

Also to emphasise a point

"Without a clear reason" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. So she possibly did know of non verbal children but who did not present as visibly disabled - again, much like my own daughter.

Born in '92. Showed all the signs of ASD in retrospect, have a fantastic genetic counsellor ready to support me should I opt to look for an assessment.

The awareness even in the 90s/00s, was directed.

I'm not saying they're misremembering. I'm saying such children were not seen in public life due to stigma and misplaced shame.

No, she didn’t, that’s the point - she came across only a small number of children who were non verbal and in those cases there was a clear known cause, such as Down’s Syndrome or cerebral palsy. She never met a child who was seemingly in perfect physical health but unable to speak for an unknown or unapparent reason.

She really isn’t a ‘back in my day’ type, she will happily tell you Call the Midwife paints a load of nonsense and that there were plenty of people and children with significant issues. But this wasn’t one of them at that time.

Sorry but my gran is 81, and had a 30 year career working with thousands of families across a time when you weren’t alive (nor was I!). Asserting that she’s wrong and that there were many thousands of hidden children really is something you should be able to substantiate, isn’t it?

Honestly, I can't see why you'd expect the same proportion of reported profiles across a generation, even if you ignore the fact that awareness of such things is a development which was only made in the last 10 years or so.

Consider this: an autistic individual's level of disability relative to the society they exist in depends to a great extent on that society's demands of them. Sensory problems, for example, are massively more of a problem now than they were 20-30 years ago, and many orders of magnitude greater than they were 100-200 years ago. On the other hand, a non-speaking (as opposed to non-verbal) individual's ability to communicate now is...well, they actually have the ability to communicate fully and explicitly (comorbid learning difficulties notwithstanding) now, which is something that never existed before.

There's also the fact that non-speaking children were usually completely misdiagnosed and often institutionalised if you go back to the 70s and earlier. That's what happened to one of my great aunts, and she lived an empty life full of inappropriate medication and shock "therapy", and spent the most lucid days of her 70 years screaming at the windows.

Um don’t think your nan really gets to speak for the whole of society.

Then she didn't meet them but they absolutely existed.

I appreciate people find it difficult to recognise hidden disabilities but that doesn't mean they're a new phenomenon.

Ae're simply better at diagnosing, have the Internet so better awareness and exposure and a crap selfish government unwilling to meet thr needs of these children because they're he'll bent on cutting taxes for their poxy mates.

My family are a punching bag for you though, keep going if it makes you feel better

How can I substantiate hidden figures?

Autism is genetic but the degree of learning disability that goes with it in some cases doesn't seem to be.

You’ve asserted that in the past there were thousands and thousands of hidden children, despite the fact you were not alive then to witness this and people that were say it didn’t happen. It’s very much on you to substantiate your claim. I don’t have a vested interest in it being true or false, I just know there is no evidence to support it, and believe my Gran who as I said worked with thousands of families over a 30 year period.

I also think there seems to be a kind of gap which doesn’t acknowledge the time between when psychiatric institutions were commonplace, and this rise in SEN became very apparent. Nobody was hiding children in the 80s-2000s.

For me I think a lot is due to tech and understanding the conditions better. ADHD was first identified when kids were expected to sit for lessons (can't remember when) but that doesn't mean it didn't exist before, just unidentified. Now a days life is more complex, more stimulating, more instant gratification- I think that maybe kids learned coping strategies better before when they were forced to wait...simple places like watching TV, there were adverts, you had to wait a week for the next episode ect. Also previous kids had more freedom, less cars so more walking/being outside ect which meant more opportunity to regulate before activities. I think screen time (both kids and parents) inhibits kids learning coping strategies without simulation/less opportunity for learning to mask ect.

"Nobody was hiding children in the 80s-2000s".

Nah, just ignoring their obvious needs. I WAS alive for that.

Also genetics - my son for example is ASD...I have recently been diagnosed ADHD...I'm pretty sure it's proven to be genetic - dyslexia for sure.

But you can’t ignore children who are non verbal and unable to communicate. I think it’s pointless us continuing this discussion to be honest.

This is anecdata, but we currently have a child similar to the above description in our reception class. He is 2:1 support level in order to keep him and others safe. His parents desperately want him in a special school like his older brother, who has the same rare genetic disorder, but he has come to us because there are nine other children at similar levels of functioning in the reception class of the seven primary schools in our area. Our headteacher has been fighting his corner for him, but there simply is nowhere for these poor children to go and have their needs met.

I’ve no idea if this is replicated nationally - though again, anecdata would suggest so as our headteacher got useful advice from her group of headteacher friends she met on Twitter, scattered across the country - or if the funding cuts have reduced special school places so much that we’re now seeing the impact more clearly.

My son (ADHD/ASD) struggles to cope in today's modern society.

Let's rewind to when I was in school in the 80's. Cane behind the board to basically ensure you sat still and listened, big walk of over 1 mile each way to school and back each day with all of your friends, so plenty of exercise and lots of time to destress , longer playtimes, more playtimes (break morning and afternoon), proper dinner hour, lots of art, lots of music, lots of sports. Actually FUN LEARNING IN SCHOOL - project work, preparing for school plays, learning the recorder.

Honestly. I listen /see how his school day is now and i think I wouldn't have coped at all. Not one bit. Yet, I was able to blend in back in the 80's. Also said I talked too much but so many opportunities to simply move.

Now it's just work work work and it's bloody boring. So kids with ADHD simply cannot cope. Far too much work too young too soon. Pressure to meet ARE all the time, SATS always looming. Kids aren't allowed to just 'be' anymore.

Then after school we all played out. On the streets, bikes, go carts, climbing trees - again, movement. Now nobody plays out. My son only has his switch (where his friends are online) and otherwise I'm driving around taking him to lots of 'planned' hobbies.

Modern life is simply shit for developing bodies and minds, lets be honest.

Work on a daily basis.
Plus data going back since we started keeping all data on the computer rather than on paper (12 years or so?)

A mixture of many factors.

My own child would not have survived birth if she had been born a generation earlier - thanks to medical science. And even then, tube feeding and home ventilation are relatively new. If she had survived birth she would have lived out her days in a hospital.
Advancing maternal age and IVF increase the chances of disability. As does having multiples, more common these days.
A very narrow school curriculum which means anyone neurodivergent will struggle more than in previous times.
Plus better diagnosis and acceptance.

You're right it is pointless - just say what you want to say. That we're feckless parents and there cannot possibly be an organic reason for non verbal children who, apparently aren't either Downs Syndrome or have CP, to exist without poor parenting being to blame.

I mean you ARE the same poster who struggled to see the ableism in the now infamous "expensive holding pen" thread, are you not?

If its not organic, what do you think is causing the "sudden uptick" in non verbal/speaking children, that has nothing to do with the factors others have already put to you?

Personally, I find it hard to believe that your Gran never met a non verbal autistic child in her illustrious career.

'Genetics' as a reason also includes those who have genetic mutation but one which hasn't been passed on from the parents. This is what is strongly suspected in my ds' case. I wonder if it was to do with pregnancy. I was incredibly ill, admitted to hospital and put on a drip then told to have bed rest when discharged. At the same time I was put under enormous stress by family members. He was born by c section.

He has severe autism and while I understand that with some people the impact of today's lifestyle; sensory, communication, regulation etc plays a part, it doesn't with him. He would have been non/ pre verbal at entry to primary school regardless (he'd had slt znd ot input from 3 and dx at 2). I also don't agree that everything to do with his severity is linked to ld and not his autism. I've had this conversation many times with a number of professionals including those we've paid for independently and they've all said he doesn't have ld and he is severely impacted by his autism.