Land dispute!! Cheeky offer?!

[NewHere77]

It has recently come to light due to neighbours pending house sale, that our neighbour has around 20 square metres of land at the top of her garden that legally belongs to our boundary. She has asked us to sign over the land to her for £200.

AIBU to think she is being a CF offering £200 for the land, as I think it likely adds a lot of value to neighbours house? (She initially wanted us to sign over land for free)!

The land adds about a third to neighbours garden and has a pretty view which isn’t overlooked.

Neighbour is playing down desirability of land but has also said that buyers will pull out if land is not included and has said she is willing to go to court to claim land.

If we disagree, she is threatening to use adverse possession claim but neither parties have been in either property long enough to claim adverse possession, although neighbour is talking about getting accounts from relatives of now deceased previous occupants of our house.

Part of me feels bad that we bought the house not knowing the extra land was ours so feels a bit rich asking for more money for it, the other side of me is thinking why should our neighbour profit from land that is not legally theirs. Interested to hear others perspectives and what land could be worth.

Thanks!

Land is finite and will only ever go up in value as more gets developed for housing or roads.

i wouldn’t sell.

incidentally, it’s going to cost about £1,000 to transfer the title legally, so her £200 offer is totally risible.

I’d keep it, it was such a cheeky offer (and the first one that you just give it to them for free??!) so I wouldn’t feel bad at all. ‘Sorry, we will be keeping the land. Not interested in the negotiation process to get a fair price from you after your first two offers.’

Indeed, if it was mine and they had started with a halfway sensible price, say £5K then maybe you could talk, but this is an attempted shakedown, wouldn't entertain it.

I’m no lawyer or property professional but you want to make sure from the land registry documents what you do own and do anything in your power to stop your neighbour claiming adverse possession. Please do not let them fence off this contested bit.

£200?! As if you're that daft.

Wouldn’t it be difficult to prove in this case as the deeds clearly show the OPs boundary in a rectangular shape. The neighbours would find it difficult to claim that they were unaware they were using their neighbours land.

I’d say you were very grateful for them pointing out your missing land and you’ll be erecting a correct fence in due course while you speak to those necessary and review your options.
mots not currently for sale or sign over but you’ll be in touch if it’s an option.

then never get in touch 😂

Out of interest, does the same occupier need to be in possession of the land for the min number of years? (I thought it was 12, but I’m probably wrong.) Or can a succession of stranger occupiers possess for a total of the required years and the present adverse occupier then claim the land?

And does land have to have been used for adverse possession? I thought fencing was enough.

This is relevant here because OP has said “…neither parties have been in either property long enough to claim adverse possession, although neighbour is talking about getting accounts from relatives of now deceased previous occupants of our house.”

@NewHere77 Not a criticism but I think you are getting bogged down in the situation when you do not need to.

Adverse possession is not possible, as many have said, the neighbours have negated that by offering to purchase the land therefore knowlingly showing they do not own the land.

You do not need to justify why you will not sell - no is a simple word.

Neighbourly relations can still be maintained just by saying no thank you at this point in time. The boundary does need to be reinstated to mirror the registered boundaries. This is something which can be done easily. If the neighbours make a thing about it then let them, they are the ones moving so they will be gone at sme point.

The neighbour may lose this sale, but it is not your problem, there will be others who wish to purchase and the legal side will be much smoother is there are no boundary errors.

Should you wish to sell your property this will also be smoother with the correct boundaries.

Finally, new neighbours arrive - you can, if you want to, discuss with them selling part of your garden for X price - you will have time to speak to your mortgage company, come up with a fair price from a land agent and decide on the price you would be prepared to sell it for. Rushing decisions tends to mean the wrong ones are made!

£11k prices per acre is for agricultural land and in no way is relevant to this situation at all.

Finally, I agree with a pp who said put a bench on the piece of land and admire the view, there is not a price that can be put on that!

If it's effecting their house sale then it's worth far more to them than you currently

It'll probably affect it in any case; any hint of a land dispute - at least an unresolved one - and many buyers would run a mile, me included

Land isn't valuable unless it's usable = do you have access & can you build on it if it was put on the open market (without interrupting her view/ending up too close to her fencing ?

If not then work out the value of neighbours property, subtract the house & garden according to original boundry (like 90-90%) & offer to split the remainder of sale price

Or

End up living next door to people who can't sell their house & absolutely hate you because you recently discovered through no fault or effort of your own that you own something of very minor value but massive inconvenience to somebody else your willing to barter with

Adverse possession laws do exist.
Possibly the neighbour is correct that the person before her had occupied the land for long enough to qualify.
The fence is possibly the new boundary.
I would get professional advice as to whether you'd be best to sign or not.

IAAL although not a property one but embarrassingly we managed to buy a house without noticing that the neighbour had part of our registered title enclosed in her garden. In that case I think it’s possible there was an adverse possession claim because boundaries had been in place for years and neighbour had exclusive use. We never discussed it with the neighbour and sold on without issue but that was lucky.

There’s been some really good advice on this thread already, particularly about the mortgage implications but I would say it is in your interests to get it sorted out one way or another at some point.

I also agree with you it’s better to maintain good neighbourly relations not least because you have to declare legal disputes when you sell. Your neighbour has gone about this really badly but possibly they are panicking about losing a sale in the context of a break up.

The neighbour has self torpedoed any hope of adverse possession, as they have offered to buy the land, thus acknowledging they are aware they don't own it - as they have raised the issue, and acknowledged the leagal ownership of the OP they can't get adverse possession.

However, offering £200 to buy it from the OP clearly indicates they know they don’t own it, thus torpedoing any adverse passion claim

edited to add, cross post with the post above!

Could the neighbour deny they made any such offer, if it was verbal?

Stop thinking of this as a matter of fairness to your neighbour. When you bought your house and land it was on the basis of the deeds with boundaries as shown. Therefore the values of your offer and of the mortgage you were allowed were based in part on the land value. If you lose that land then you not only overpaid, but your mortgage lender is also affected. Just because you misunderstood the boundaries does not mean that the mortgage lender misunderstood - their surveyor almost certainly took that land into account when assessing the value of the property.

What are they using the land for at the moment? I can't believe this was missed when you bought the house. This is great for you though as more land for you than you thought. I guess you have to decide if you are prepared to sell it or if you want to keep it. Its not your concern if their buyers pull out this is your land. If you do agree to sell than make sure you get a fair price (not £200!). Lovely little bonus for you.

Yes they could deny it or claim it wasn’t an offer to buy but just payment towards getting the title corrected or something along those lines. OP if I were you I would keep any records of communication with your neighbours and if it was verbal make a detailed written note of what was said to you and when and sign and date it. If you don’t have anything in writing you could try and prompt something by emailing to say you have considered the offer to purchase your land as shown on the plan for £200, there are various issues to consider but are happy to discuss further?

I’m no expert but it doesn’t sound as though there is a good adverse possession claim here. I would take some legal advice though and if selling is something you’d think about for the right price then I would ask your neighbour to cover solicitors costs and all other fees.

Agreed

They could deny any verbal contact however I expect there are solicitors letters they have stating the boundary is incorrect and that piece of land is not theirs to sell, from the conveyancing of currently trying to sell their property.

Neither their solicitor or their purchasers solicitors are going to exchange contracts currently, so the neighbours can deny saying to the OP as much as they want but it will not achieve a sale.

I expect what may have happened is the neighbours have told the EA and any prospective purchasers the land belongs to them/the neighbours have agreed/we will sort it out. The legal side has now curtailed the sale, hence the neighbours have quickly thought they could solve the problem.

The mistake the neighbour has made is the low ball offer!

All that needs to be done is the neighbours say the fence will be moved back to the correct boundary and discount the price they are selling at. The buyers can choose to buy or not. All the onus in on the neighbours, not the OP.

@Saltysausage - I'm not saying a claim would succeed. However, the fact that the physical boundary was in the wrong place suggests that, like OP, they may never have checked the physical boundary against the plan. Whenever a neighbour is claiming adverse possession, it is always the case that the plan shows the correct boundary.

@Tryingtokeepgoing - The fact they now know the land isn't theirs doesn't torpedo an adverse possession claim. Clearly, the party claiming adverse possession must have become aware that they don't own the land prior to making a claim. The claim will have been triggered by discovering the problem. The question is whether, up to this point, they reasonably believed it was their land. The fact they have offered to buy may weaken their position, but I'm not convinced it is fatal if they try to claim adverse possession.

However, I agree with @PropertyManager that, even if an adverse possession claim would succeed, it is unlikely the buyer would wait around for that to be resolved. OP is in a strong position even if the neighbours do have a claim.

Just curious @NewHere77 on your plan you posted, what it the small triangle between your garden and the neighbours?

Having looked at the plan again on my laptop rather than mobile, I think you would be very foolish not to reclaim this land - your garden will be so much better in its original form plus you maintain the nice view.

You say you were a first time buyer, when you sell, you will find buyers are very picky, a good, well shaped garden, will a good view, may help them choose your house over one with no such a good garden space.

Even if you do decide to sell, I wouldn’t advise buyer clients to exchange until the land is registered in the seller’s name. That could easily take 6 months due to Land Registry backlogs. Your neighbours are better off just selling their property for a lower price without the land.

I'd knock off the word 'sorry' - why would OP be 'sorry' when the neighbour's taking the piss.