DD4 said a girl at nursery is brown.. what to say ?

[vangh]

I always ask my DD about her friends. I say stuff like ' who's your best friend ? ' ' who shall we invite to your birthday ? ' she is 4 in a few weeks.

I asked her about a girl in her class and she said ' yeah she's brown '..

Her nursery is pretty diverse and we've spoken about lots of other children before that aren't white, but she's never said anything like that.

I didn't really know what to say. I know that sounds really stupid probably. I think I said something like, everyone is a different colour.. not sure if that was the right thing to say.

I understand she'll notice that there are different skin colours but I'm a bit surprised she said that and I don't want to say the wrong thing.

For context, we don't ever talk about skin colour at home, so maybe we should. Maybe there are child friendly books that explain this ?

Has your child said something like this and what did you do ?

DD had a friend who she described as a black boy, turns out he was wearing black and he was actually a white lad ..

You’re overthinking here. Worked in nurseries for years, children with darker skin frequently refer to themselves as ‘ brown’ especially when colouring and asking for the right skin tone.

I actually always found conversations between children with reference to skin colour really sweet (usually when drawing themselves), e.g, ‘your skins chocolate’, ‘yours is custard’, ‘yours is pink’, ‘you need the yellow crayon and I need brown’.

Always said without any negativity, just completely factual. You don’t need to do anything at all.

I'd react exactly the same way as I would if she said "so and so has red hair"

We've had a lot of different books for my ND 6yo over the years and tend to pop on the bookshelf every so often. He also describes himself as peach and some friends as brown, and was really interested to know about different kinds of brown skin. We never worry about it, acknowledge his interest and answer with something that he could (and probably does) repeat.

I really like Usborne books for younger children. We tend to dip into them and have them available rather than read cover to cover.
https://usborne.com/gb/all-about-diversity-9781474986649

He also likes this one from the library:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/I-Am-Brown-Ashok-Banker/dp/1911373943

He also really likes talking about the different boobs on the poster inside the M&S changing rooms. 😅

Her friend is brown, like could be ginger, wear glasses (no very frequent at that age) etc. There is nothing racist, only descriptive in your daughter words.
If the main descriptive feature of her friend is that she is brown she will tell you exactly because there may be more 'Hanna" but the brown one is her friend.

I went swimming with my Dd, aged about 4, we got in the baby pool and she shouted "look at that man he's black"
He looked over.
I said "yes he is he's a beautiful colour isn't he" she said "but he's so black"
"yes lucky him, he's a lovely colour, you know people come in different colours, there's no need to comment"
I gave him an apologetic smile.
He smiled back. I think it was because she had never seen so much black skin, he was exceptionally dark, about 6foot4, with an amazing body.

Children will comment and you just have to say something positive. Then have a conversation with them after about it afterwards. They don't know it's rude to comment, just like they would say "she's got blue hair"

All her books have people of different skin colour in them! It's 2024! That's how thankfully all books are. We just haven't really talked about it. She's never noticed or pointed it out.

You’ve handled it just fine

The way a comedian who made a joke along these lines, can't remember who though but it basically went.

Kev and Dave are at a house party:
Kev: Dave can I borrow your lighter
Dave: Yeah, Tim has it
Kev: whose Tim?
Dave: hes in the kitchen, hes 6 foot tall give or take a few inches and has dark hair
Kev: theres several people matching that discription
Dave: I think he is wearing jeans and a t-shirt
Kev: they all are
Dave: he has deep brown eyes, a warm presence and an effervescent smile
Kev: WTF does that even mean?
Dave: oh, he also speaks with a Nigerian accent
Kev: is Tim the black man?
Dave: you can't say that, its racist

Like sometimes a descriptor is just a descriptor. If its not used derogatorily instead just as a simple identifier its not a bad thing. Like no one would think twice about describing me as 'the red headed one' even though thats heavily linked to my genetics/race. It isn't offensive, I have red hair so its just fact and if no one else in the room has red hair its likely the easiest identifier of who I am in the crowd.

Being 'brown' is not a bad thing that must never be mentioned, reducing it to a dirty secret that must not be said seems far more racist and shaming than embracing and acknowledging it as just a normal difference.

even when I asked him about the Asian child he played with, and he still thought they looked pretty similarl so I figured I had nothing to worry about!

I wouldn’t worry about him not being “colourblind” tbh. We are teaching our mixed race DC not to be (starting with books about being black or Asian etc - they had the book Ten Little Fingers at birth for instance and we discussed it as they grew up) as they’ll have a different experience of the world in some ways. Of course it’d be wonderful if they didn’t experience the world differently to their white peers (which was always my idealistic view when they were born) but my husband (black heritage) tells me that’s being a little naive which I do agree with too. Parenting is tough.

Lots of people refer to themselves as brown nowadays. A friend of mine who is mixed race calls herself brown because she says she’s not black and she’s not white. Her bad is black her mum white.

I just try and roll with it and I try to ask my friends about it. We tie ourselves up in knots about the ‘right’ way to describe people from different places or with different skin tone. Because it’s all so loaded politically and historically. But what’s right keeps changing! If you’re worrying I’d ask nursery staff what they do and say just from a curiosity and asking for advice, or if you have a friend or colleague who is brown ask them! It all gets a bit silly sometimes

That is equally racist though... 'positive' racism is equally as segregating and very creepy just done with a fake smile.

You ever see the film 'get out'? its a great horror film take on that social topic.

@housethatbuiltme
It was genuine, he was a lovely colour, the man was sexy as hell.

What should I have said?
If you can't be positive about differences, the world is broken.

I am brown.
I would get a book from the library/buy a book about different races and ethnicity. Read it with her and revisit it . In this series of books they have topics about different family set up’s ( two mums/ two dads )

See this as an opportunity to explore different races and cultures etc.

By the way- i have children in my class
say - Miss you have brown skin. It’s just them noticing and normal. We use these books to celebrate everyone …

https://www.amazon.co.uk/All-About-Diversity-Felicity-Brooks/dp/1474986641/ref=asc_df_1474986641/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=500776799008&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9511877338547786854&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9045107&hvtargid=pla-1017600795105&psc=1&mcid=51c0d5d7a9923b0fabb01ace09cbed72&th=1&psc=1

@housethatbuiltme I felt that mum was doing her best, but it be it did make me cringe.

What should she have done ? Just acknowledge that the man is in fact black ?

In my opinion, I would have explained to my child that we don't point out someone's skin colour.

In fact I felt like saying yesterday - yes your friend is brown, but it's not something we comment on. I don't want to shame her but I don't want her doing that in public to people. I think it's inappropriate and something she needs to learn is not OK to point out. Just like other physical characteristics. She should just learn it's not something that's polite to be pointing out. Whether that be glasses, hair colour, noses or weight. But I don't know if I'm being too much by saying that, hence I made this thread to get some other points of view. I don't want to be shaming her either but in the long run, she does need to learn not to comment on appearance.

My Ds is the same age and said the same thing about a little girl in his nursery, he also calls her ‘extra special’ because she’s bilingual (which I found incredible at 4) . My ds plays with her in nursery and he invited her along to his birthday party and vice versa. I think they are just innocently saying what they see with no malicious intent. I wouldn’t make a thing if it OP.

Well, if her friend is "a black" girl. Her skin is therefore a shade of a colour your DD presumably calls brown.

It seems as if your DD is simply observing the world and sharing her observations with you. Nothing wrong with that!

(If she had said "black" instead of "brown" I would have suspected that she´s picked that up somewhere, btw. Whcih wouldn´t have been surprising either, seeing as children are a bit like sponges...)

Several South Asian people I know refer to themselves as brown, and several of us East Asian people call ourselves yellow, but it only feels okay for us to be describing ourselves in that way, not for people of other skin colours to do so.

I suppose it’s done in the same way that black people sometimes use the n word to describe themselves. It’s about reclaiming a word that has been used to describe you offensively in the past.

I don’t think I’d bat an eyelid at a young child using the descriptors brown and yellow, but I’d expect an older kid to use different words. For now, I wouldn’t make a big deal, and would just make sure nothing negative was being linked to a certain skin colour.

@vangh you might find it helpful to use the 30-second rule. If it isn’t something that a person can change within 30 seconds then we don’t point it out to them. So untied shoelace, food stuck in teeth, leaf in their hair - fine. Height, weight, freckles, hair colour - we don’t make comments to people about them.

Off the point a bit but I wouldn't be asking who her best friend is
@vangh. Just who her friends are.

DS 12 started a new school and was talking about a new friend he made. He said " I am not being racist but he is brown". I pointed out that identifying the colour of his skin was not being racist but treating him differently because of it is eg I dont talk to him because he is brown.

Sometimes people dont know how to handle it and are afraid of coming across as racist.

I wouldn’t worry about this. At that age kids say it as they see it, and skin tone is an identifying feature, as much as curly or straight hair, short or tall, blue or brown eyes, or she wears a coat with ducks on.

My DC identifies as peach (not white), and enjoys playing i-spy on the bus with colours, “I spy something brown” came around, myself and the person on the bus made many guesses. We gave up. “It’s you!” DC exclaimed. “What? No, no, I’m black”, “No, no you’re definitely brown.”

DC was confused, they don’t understand race, racism or anything like that. They just understand that they have peach skin and their friend has brown and that’s that.

It's worth getting a few kids books. Look at:

We all belong
Our skin
It's okay to be different

I think it's important to have conversations. Ignoring things doesn't make them go anway. We make a conscious effort of buying books with black, Asian and mix race protagonists.

There’s a Sesame Street clip that explains race/colour differences in a nice way:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk_HYAiS26I

Its not a taboo subject.

Different skin tones/colours, heritage, hair types should be celebrated. We are all different and that is amazing, we aren't all the same (Thank God).

She said she is brown, so what? It is the adults who always seem to make a big deal of this type of thing.