To be nervous about an undersubscribed one-form entry infant school with declining birth rates?

[Cheepcheepcheep]

Coming to crunch time for Reception applications. I like the idea of a small school for late summer born DD, as does DH - and one of our options is a village school (we are on the edge of a town and would get in based on the last 3 years of data, once due to under subscription and twice on distance).

We’ve visited and it seems very friendly and welcoming. However, it’s one form entry and they only have 20 kids in the current reception. I’m nervous about the idea of going for it as I worry about funding, especially given the decline in birth rates and roll numbers.

Our alternative (and my preference) is a two form entry that we should get into on distance and which has been full this year.

Arguments for this school are the fact we both like it and a lot of her nursery friends are going there.

AIBU for worrying about the size and what that might mean for the future and funding?

To add, as DD is late august we are applying for a deferral - this is just the choice in case we don’t get it. DH has agreed the bigger school would be better if she starts at just turned 5 rather than just turned 4.

This can also happen with a two form entry if the classes are not mixed each year.

Lots of people stating they single form entry schools are better “because the children all know each other”, or “because the teachers all know the children”.

DS goes to a two form entry primary, and the teachers all know him (even out of context - his headmaster came over to say hi in the park over summer), and he seems to know pretty much every child in the school (definitely knows everyone in his year, knows lots of people in the year above and below from playtime, and recognises children from much older years from after school clubs). A good school will just know all their pupils.

You're right it can still happen, but at least with 2 form entry there are more chances to find friends and opportunities to spend time with them even if they're in the other class. I'm sure there are schools that don't mix classes, but in my experience most schools do it at some point, even if it's not every year.

YANBU to be concerned. I don’t think many people have grasped that the fall in the birth rate is so steep that PAN reductions have already started and school closures will follow. The school is unlikely to close imminently but there is a good chance that they could reduce the PAN to 15 and introduce dual-year classes, so you should consider whether this would be an issue for you.

I will only add that the decision to defer isn’t the silver bullet that is sometimes suggested on MN. We did not defer our bright mid-August girl and this was the right choice for her, even acknowledging my confirmation bias. It can be as damaging to the child (and more disruptive to others) to be bored and unchallenged by school as it can to be significantly behind peers. It’s a complex decision to be taken on an individual basis.

I wanted the smaller school and intake for dd. I would rather have the smaller teacher to kids ratio.

Numbers have increased since she started and year on year continues to increase.

All of the teachers, heads included, know all of the students.

I went to small schools and hate the idea of big schools. I really dread when she goes to secondary as it's literally 10 times the number of students in the one she will go to than the primary she's at.
I fear the possibility of bullying etc will increase with so many more kids.

I’m really fascinated by the horror of big schools that I often read on MN. IME children don’t realise that their school is especially big - it’s only as adults that we take in the scale of the whole institution. Children just plough their little furrow to their classroom, their playground etc. Bigger schools almost always have separate play spaces for different key stages and will generally stagger lunch times. There’s no getting away from your bully in a tiny school.

The benefits of bigger schools are significant and the economies of scale aren’t limited to finance. There’s a positive impact on workload when teachers can share planning and it’s less likely that one teacher will find themselves trying to lead multiple subjects with minimal support. I have great respect for teachers who choose to work in very small schools as it is HARD but they would not be my choice for my own children.

As a teacher who has worked in 1 form entry and 3 form entry, some things to think about…

Pros of 1 form:

• More relaxed vibe for the children, no rushing around to swap sets for Maths/English etc.
• Teacher can be more spontaneous/child led because they are running on their own timetable and don’t have to be ‘consistent’ with other classes in the year group, as they are the only class
• Children get to know all of the teachers in the school really quickly, helps with transitions to higher year groups
• Teachers and TAs tend to stay together in the same year group each year, meaning they are highly knowledgeable on that year group’s curriculum

Cons of 1 form:

• The smaller pool of potential friends can cause real problems. Even 2 form entries that don’t mix classes up, will likely still mix the children up into sets for certain lessons and children will have more people to mix with on the playground
• On the same note, if there is a particularly disruptive child in the class, or a child that for whatever reason your child doesn’t get on with, there is never any opportunity in the day to get away from them
• The workload for teachers is significantly higher in a smaller school, so if you have a teacher who isn’t very organised then the children will potentially miss out on opportunities if things aren’t resourced/planned as well. In a 2 form entry, the teachers will share the planning - the less subjects you have to plan, the more time you can spend on making each one as effective as possible.
• Less extra curricular activities. Because the budget is smaller, TAs and teachers will likely be used to cover lunchtimes and playground duties. In a bigger school, teachers are more freed up to run clubs during lunchtimes.

Obviously I can’t speak for every 1 form/multiple form school, but these are things I have observed/experienced.

Dd is August born and goes to the small village primary with siblings. Reception is 14-16 pupils she thrived in her class of 14 and was one of 3 girls, she’s year 2 now and is working above expectations in all areas, doing well and is very happy there. Siblings thrived & brother is currently in reception now (he’s early summer born). They have mixed yr1/2 class, 3/4 & 5/6 classes too, it’s undersubscribed currently. I would go for the smaller classes of village school, with a potential of 20 on roll I doubt it would close anytime soon.

My DH went to a small primary hen he was little. Only 7 boys in reception. He said it was brilliant and the teaching was great. Made friends with everyone and thrived.

I will add that our small village s hook has a good array of clubs & activities after school & at lunchtime run by teachers, TA’s and a few external sport groups. They also participate in lots of competitions & shows locally & further afield. Friends were quite scathing when we picked our local school due to its size and are often surprised at some of the stuff they take part in. I would agree with @Imuptoolate about not being able to get away from disruptive kid or in DD’s case a very noisy one or if they fall out it can be tricky.

One thing to consider is how you'll feel about maybe moving her if things change in a few years.

we picked a small village primary school for my daughter. 17 per year entry and mixed classes.

In reality it was a bad decision for us as the achool was quite poor and took no feedback.
However our main issue became the friendship groups. It was just too small, so any fall outs were hugely magnified and a couple of the kids really clashed.

In the end we moved to a single form entry but bigger primary school and it's helped my daughter lots. She's now being challenged. There's enough kids to dilute fall outs and get away from it if needed.
In two terms 8 of us removed out children for various reasons.

I can see why you'd worry that the smaller place isn't the long term option you need.

With a school that size you might be looking at combined year groups in older years (e.g. two classes for 3 years). There are also resource issues - my DD school has one TA per class as they have two form entry and a lot of pupil premium.
If that doesn't bother you it could be a good choice.

if you have a teacher who isn’t very organised then the children will potentially miss out on opportunities if things aren’t resourced/planned as well

An important point - and magnified further in very small schools with composite classes. It’s lovely to have the same teacher for two years if they are a wonderful Miss Honey but sadly two years with a poor teacher can do lasting damage.

I’d go for the smaller village school. That’s private school class sizes!

I'd have been delighted to have a school place for my DD at a school with only 20 in the class. She had 34! And it was a double intake, so over 60 in her year group! Waaaay too many.

Would avoid a small primary particularly for girls. We went to a tiny village school my poor sister was trapped with a very troubled girl who mercilessly bullied her for years but she had literally no other friendship options. Better to have a nice deep pool of girls picked two form entry for ours - no accident.

Three or more children got in on infant class size appeals?

Yep. It was bonkers!

Ours is 60. Dc1 was summer born (and maybe asd).
It was too much. Teachers let all 60 run 'wild' every afternoon in reception. No supervision at playtimes either.
The eyfs photos and info on either of my kids was only ever whole year photos. No individual assessments.
Dc1 could already read cvc words yet had to relearn all phonics sounds. Only read with ta a few times a term and teacher 6 times a year.
Parties always crossed over both classes. Even woth 60 kids dc1 no party invites from y3 to y6.
And kids werent put in set so no benefit here from more targetted.
Also completely underestimated dc.

Eg swimming lessons the kids only had 6-7w over 2years so 14 lessons.
Following covid almost no school trips. 1 in 3.5years.
Dc2 at oct born at same school it hasnt been as bad. We've had issues with being forced to read books several times before changing. Incorrect assessment so stuck on lower level.
But friendship has been easier.

No clubs ever free or paid for at lunchtimes.

I guess some factors (intelligence/age in year etc etc) emphasize a good or bad school and its fsctors like year group and class size.

@StripeyDeckchair it doesn’t take years to close a school. The local one that is closing has taken 9 months. The governors decided it was no longer viable - not the local authority. The parents have just been informed it will close in July.

My DD's Reception class had to have the new Nursery intake join them, as only 13 accepted. Reception parents were worried but it's actually been fine - no idea what happens when they reach Y1 though!

You can’t have your deferral turned down: a child doesn’t legally have to go to school until they are 5, so it is totally your choice or not if you defer.

As a School Business Manager, unfortunately I have to agree with @Rudolphtherednoseddog and @ThanksItHasPockets the current funding climate, rising costs and unfunded pay awards are meaning that many smaller schools are struggling significantly as primary intake numbers fall. These will decline more rapidly from now on, with secondaries cushioned from the impact only until 2025. You can’t compare the experience your child had in a small school 10yrs ago with today. My primary aged child goes to a two-form entry school and they still have just enough budget to provide a really rich and broad curriculum.

Small schools round here seem to be closing left right and centre. We don’t have any with classes of 20 though, ours were combining year groups so the classes were all 30, but might contain yR/1/2. I’m surprised schools are sustainable at those sizes.

Whereas schools like that in the past were lovely places with a really personal feel, with budgets and Ofsted the way they are-the stress on the small numbers of staff is immense. An ECT daughter of my friend left her small school (another with the combined year groups) because she was going into her first ‘proper’ year leading phonics, maths, history, PE and PHSE. They were due an Ofsted and she would likely have been facing Deep Dives in several subjects on her own. They also wanted to send her on the SENco course-she was on the edge of a breakdown with the worry of it all, to be honest . The staff and this school seems to change completely on a 12-18m cycle.

If a different government get in and improve funding in schools and reform Ofsted, small schools might stand a chance, but under the current regime-I would not work in one .