To think DH might have lost his job?

[greenpjs]

A few issues which have been building for a while now have come to a head today. He works in a small team, they have been understaffed for months now and the workload is just too much for that amount of people.

He very rarely finishes on time because the work is just never done by 5. So that means he's pretty much gone 7:30-7 every day if he doesn't finish when he should, because of the commuting time and the fact public transport near us is very unreliable. I try to offer lifts where I can, but sometimes this is not possible and I'm left with a lot of the load of looking after DC when I work FT as well. Financially, it's not really possible for us at the moment for him to take driving lessons and then get a car either. We are both exhausted with it and I've lost patience. He's been working weekends as well over the past few weeks, although he is contracted to do this it seems ridiculous just so they can have the Bank Holidays off!

Anyway, tonight I offered to pick him up at 5:30, I was sat in the car waiting until 6 with no sign of him. I asked him where he was and he said he was waiting for another colleague to provide sign off for something so he couldn't leave until then but they were taking their time. I was obviously annoyed and next minute he comes out and says he basically told the manager he had had enough of doing overtime every single night and that it wasn't feasible anymore, that they should hire more staff, review current working processes to make them more efficient etc etc. He said he wasn't staying a minute longer and stormed out. The only suggestion the manager had was for him to change shift to finish later which also doesn't work, and why should he have to anyway?

Obviously this is not ideal, but I can understand his frustration and why he has basically just exploded at them. Realistically is he now going to lose his job?

I doubt he will lose his job.

Is he in a union?

@SweetFemaleAttitude No. And I don't think there is one for the industry he works in. I think it would be harsh for them to sack him, but I'm worried that they will!

Why would he lose his job for venting frustration? Legally he doesn’t need to work a minute over contracted hours.

Think he needs to sit down with his boss tomorrow though and discuss moving forward.

I think it's because of the way it happened. He was so frustrated and may have used some choice words, he didn't swear directly at the manager but still 😬

Is it big or small org?

if very small anything is possible I’m afraid

You’ll have a case of he does. He needs to request an HR meeting to discuss the excessive unpaid overtime and additional duties he carrier put compared to those stated in his job description.

It doesn't matter what job you have. You have the legal right to join a union and the legal right to representation at most types of employment issue meetings, even if the union is not recognised in his workplace.

He should put a grievance in. His employers are taking the piss.

It sounds like a horrible place to work and I would advise him to join a union asap.

If they are all ready short staffed they won't want to lose a man that has been putting all the additional hours in to keep everything ticking over. Maybe they will employ an additional person. I know what it's like because my DH is contracted to work 35 hours a week but all the time he has been wfh he's saved 2 hours a day commuting so been working an additional hour and a half most days. Now he's back in the office 3 days a week he's starting at 8.30, having 30 mins lunch and he's leaving on time at 4pm and it's been noticed he's no longer taking calls and replying to emails until 5.30pm. On 2 days he WFH he continues until 5.30pm as no commute. When he goes back into office everyday he'll be doing 7 1/2 hours less each week so some work will get put back on hold.

If they’re so understaffed that everyone has to
work extra hours I doubt they’d want to
be rid of him unless he did something that tied their hands

Medium sized I'd say

I very much doubt he will lose his job for venting his frustration.

If he/you are that worried, he could send an email to his boss, apologising for losing his temper - put it down to being tired/feeling stressed.

If they are very short staffed, they're highly unlikely to go sacking the ones they do have!

All this said, the situation sounds untenable for everyone. He needs to speak to HR/a more senior manager to explain the impact on him/others and ask what can be done to alleviate the pressure.

How long has he worked there? If less than two years, he could be on shaky ground. If more than two years, they would have to instigate disciplinary procedures and he would have an opportunity to argue his case.

It’s really hard to say though without knowing what the culture is like (i.e. do people swear a bit, is the manager aware of the issues and sympathetic etc).

Get him to join a union straight away. Several e.g. GMB, Unite, are active across a wide range of industries. Even if the employer doesn't engage with the union for pay negotiations etc. union membership is vital for legal advice, representation, etc when things go badly - and you need to be a member before you get fired, etc, afterwards is too late for them to help. Hope things improve for you both.

Is it a well paid job for the skillset?

Maybe you going on a bit drove him to it. I obviously get why you are annoyed, but in some jobs you can't finish at an exact time like if you were working in McDonald's (though admittedly half the time things could be improved dramatically by better organisation)

They would be mad to let him go if they are so short staffed. Hopefully they see it as a sign if asking to much and are grateful for him doing the contracted hours and breaking the habit of working late.

Why do people always suggest joining a union?!? They don’t step in and help people after the event FFS. It’s like only applying for car insurance after a crash - you need to pay your dues 🙄.

"He works in a small team, they have been understaffed for months now and the workload is just too much for that amount of people."

I think they're far more likely to hang onto him for grim death that they are to fire him - they need the staff they have too much to let anyone go.

To fire him they need a reason, they need to go through a process, a medium-sized organisation should have HR department. And he could claim unfair dismissal.

I reckon his job is safe.

Legally they only need to go through a disciplinary process if he has been there more than two years. He cannot claim unfair dismissal with less than this.

He's been there over 2 years. And no it isn't even well paid, so all this overtime isn't even worth it. He earns less than his manager but they expect him to do the same job role, have the same responsibilities and when his manager is off, he is pretty much a stand in and he takes over, as nobody else is capable on the team

I presume he’s gone into work this morning? Is everything ok?

They'd be on very shaky ground to fire him - on those hours, he's likely breaching the Working Time Directive, and they can't force him to do that.

Hi OP,

as he’s worked there for more than two years they would need to go through a formal disciplinary process to sack him.

As the job isn't well laid, does he get paid for all this overtime? If he doesn’t, it’s worth calculating what his hourly rate is when he includes all the hours he’s working overtime. He might find that his employers are paying below the national minimum wage which opens the company up to a whole host of legal ramifications.

Also it’s worth looking for a new job, nothing will get better from the sounds of it and he’s probably not getting paid his worth/industry average by the sounds of it.

They are massively understaffed, so no, they aren't going to sack him.

Doesn't sound like a fureable offence. However sounds like he has leverage that he should use to get better pay/conditions and/or look for another job.

Very much doubt it if they are already understaffed and he's doing the stand in managers job when his boss is off. I doubt your moaning at him helped the situation though.