Is this elf and safety gone mad?

[girlfriend44]

Yesterday I helped an elderly woman who had fallen over in town. She slipped on the wet path.
Managed along with others, to get her up, talk to her etc and give her tissues for her cut etc.
We took her into a local bank to sit down in the warm while we waited for an ambulance.
We asked if the bank had first aid box we could borrow as all we had were tissues.
The bank were apologetic and said they couldnt lend the box to the public due to the fact some people might have allergies etc.
I asked for a bit of water and they bought that but said no the borrowing the first aid box.

IS this right in your opinion or is it elf and safety gone mad. When its a long wait for an ambulance its very hard if an organisation wont lend you their first aid.

Absolutely ridiculous. Which bank?

Allergies to what? And where was the banks first aider? H&S manager here and that sounds bonkers to me.

A first aid box shouldn’t have anything in that people are allergic to. Wipes should be water based and hypoallergenic plasters. Ridiculous that they wouldn’t lend it to you. I wonder if that’s company policy? I’d be dropping an enquiring email to the company personally but that’s just me.

No that’s ridiculous the first aid kit should be available for all. Where was their designated first aider??!!!

I'm not sure anyone is allergic to bandages/gauze but if they were, and were awake like the woman here, they would say so.

This is the sort of attitude that leaves people scared to administer first aid to strangers in an emergency.

we were approached by a lady first then she went to talk to someone else and then she came back and said we are unable to lend because of allergies.

We just muttered health and safety gone mad, she apologised and walked off.

We were left with an elderly person who had no family that could come and no first aid apart from tissues and am ambulance that coudnt come for two hours after assessing the call.

If there’s someone in their property requiring first aid and they knew about it, they shouldn’t be lending out the first aid box., there should be their first aider attending (with said first aid box presumably) to help as much as they could! Might be unfortunate that it’s now their problem because it didn’t happen in their bank, but I 100% reckon the banks policies wouldn’t say a random injured member of the public should be on their premises without a first aider checking it out?!

It’s not even health and safety gone mad. It’s the opposite of heath and safety.
They have that kit in order to administer first aid. If a customer or colleague fell and banged their head, or cut themselves, they’d have to use the kit. Allergies is a stupid response from someone who hasn’t had correct H&S training. I would write to the branch and head office and inform that the staff all need updated first aid training.

That’s crazy. As a First Aider I would say their actions were completely wrong. Was the lady you spoke to the duty FA?

Interesting, we took her into the bank foyer to keep her warm and dry while waiting for the ambulance , it didnt technically happen in there no.

Very elderly person though and we needed more than tissues while waiting.

Exactly this. What would have happened if the woman had fallen in the bank - would they have left her on the floor with no first aid and no help till the ambulance came.

Terrible.

"elf and safety" cracked me up but the actual story obviously is not funny.

Even though it didn’t happen there, she ended up there, whether they like it or not (I’d have done exactly the same as you, who is going to leave her out in the cold?) so they then have a duty of care I feel.

They are talking absolute bollocks. Firstly, there should be nothing in a first aid kit that can cause an allergic reaction. Secondly, the bank should have had a first aider on site who should have used the kit to help the patient. Sounds to me
like either no first aider on site, or a reluctant first aider who didn’t want to get involved.

According to the HSE, the bank doesn't legally have to provide first aid to members of the public

HSE

"First aid for the public - Do I need to make first-aid provision for members of the public?The Health and Safety (First-Aid) Regulations 1981 do not require employers to provide first aid for members of the public. However, many organisations such as schools, places of entertainment, fairgrounds and shops provide a service for others. HSE strongly recommends that employers include the public in their first-aid needs assessment and make provision for them.
Do the Health and Safety (First-Aid) Regulations 1981 cover large events such as concerts?Only in so far as employers are responsible for providing first aid for their employees. At events such as concerts, it is the event organiser's responsibility to ensure the availability of medical, ambulance and first-aid assistance as appropriate for all those involved"

FWIW, I think thats fucking bonkers and had a stand up argument with a venue manager who wouldn't let me, a qualified first aider, use a venue's first aid box on a member of the public who had fallen and cut his head in the venue's car park, as "they don't have to provide first aid to the public, and if it was that bad, i should just call an Ambulance!"

I won the argument in the end, but yes, there are some idiots out there!

And believe it or not, Ambulances have to legally carry a first aid kit for the staff if they are injured!

YABU for using ‘elf and safety’. You sound like Richard Littlejohn.

When someone fell outside our school (not parent or visitor) we went out and helped her in and gave First Aid, a cup of tea and sat with her till her husband came to collect her. And the head arranged for flowers to be sent to her. (My friend even grabbed the Dfib when we ran out but it wasn’t needed!)

It's actually very common for first aid kits to be for employee use only unless there is a trained first aider available.

That was always the case when I worked in retail, anyway, and unless a business location has more than a certain number of employees, a trained first aider isn't a legal requirement.

Dont know.

we were happy to do the first aid and look through the box, we just wanted them to provide it.

I’d assume it’s a member of branch staff who has misunderstood or been misadvised rather than anything else. A lot of people do still (mistakenly) believe they could be sued if somebody had an allergic reaction to something like a plaster.

YABU for calling it 'elf and safety'

You should contact the bank and inform them what happened. If there was a first aider on site they should have used the kit to assist the woman as required. That's what it is there for.

Depending on the number of staff on site they may not have had a first aider, in which case you can't expect an untrained member of staff to know what the appropriate thing to do is. They're not trained and so would not necessarily know that the first aid kit can be used for non-employees injured off the premises.

Secondly, the bank should have had a first aider on site who should have used the kit to help the patient.

There's no legal requirement for small, "low hazard" businesses like banks and shops to have any first aider on site, though.

HSE recommend that low hazard businesses with more than 25 employees in one location have a trained first aider available, but it's not required. Many small businesses have less than 10 people employed in each location so they don't have to bother.

It’s the difference between moral and legal responsibility. Legally, no a business does not have to lend its first aid kit to someone that’s not an employee. Not all workplaces require a first aider legally. The HSE links prove it.

But morally, they should have helped. It’s staff worried about getting sued in case something goes wrong- as society has such a blame culture and people sometimes think big businesses have big pockets.

I would email the bank and say what happened, as it was a vulnerable older person the bank morally should have provided more help.

Bloody weird isnt it?

An elderly member of the public needs assistance. It could be their mum and dad that is😱 what I always think.

The answer is no. Members of the public dont carry round first aid boxes with them so what are you to do?